who cares what others like? I don´t...
and industrial...brrr, this word makes me....brrr
Industrial Music forum » Music news discussion forum
Why does no-one like Industrial music?
(189 posts)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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CharlieAngel
offlineMember1) The scene is full of elitist know-it-all fuckwits that run the new blood off with attitude at every single chance.
2) You can only write the same 5 songs so many times before people start to catch on...
3) A whole lot of bitching and whining about everything. Seriously, is there a more self-loathing scene anywhere? Even the emo kids fuck, for chrissakes. The Industrial kids just type really angrily in trade chat.
4) Lots of bitching, no solutions. I hate the guy at work that just bitches non-stop, not because he bitches, but because he has no ideas on how to fix the problems. Yes, dude, it sucks. Shut the fuck up or fix it.
5) The fashion sucks. You look retarded.
6) Seriously. Same fucking 5 songs.
7) Whenever someone does try to step out of the same 5 song format, there's a legion of professional Industrial Strength haters that come creeping out of the woodwork to bitch, whine, and moan about it, and then the elitists come in to bash it about how it's not proper "Music Theory" or some such nonsense, and then the "fashion" assholes complain about how they don't wear some shitty stack boots or bdus or cyberfalls or something. And then they bitch about how the artist just sits behind a laptop.
8) Drama drama drama drama drama.
9) 5 Songs.
At least with the punk scene, I had some sort of mission. Distrust in authority, leave me the fuck alone, Do It Yourself, or if you weren't into "peace" punk, there was always the spiral into self-destruction with heroin and alcohol, squatting in your own filth scene to jump into. I have no idea what Industrial kids do when they're not sitting around being angry. Overwhelmingly I find that the politics are a little too authoritarian (you know, all that "fascist" imagery is ironic, right?), xenophobic, and closed-minded in it's own special way.
Yes, I'm aware that this is more bashing the scene, but it's hard to get an appreciation for the music when you've got a lot of socially maladjusted freaks chasing everyone off.
Frankly, as a fellow socially maladjusted freak, I don't really care. I like the music I like and I'll continue to listen to it, popular or not. And really, I don't mind the fact that it's all the same 5 songs. The Blues are even worse about it and it does just fine.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Pool Waiter
offlineMember"The Blues" is just one song played at different tempos.
Posted 1 year ago # -
wormsoftheearth
offlineMemberi can't mention lack of professionalism enough. ran into some things this weekend that made me want to pull my hair out. i'm baffled by how people can be so fucking retarded. (and then later not understand why everything is failing).
Posted 1 year ago # -
Cretin Dilettante
offlineMemberNobody likes Industrial because there is no scene, image, or distinctive sound to it. (Not to mention the sounds associated with most Industrial bands is very abrasive or unconventional compared to popular rock based music.)
Nobody likes lolgothdance and modern EBM because it looks just like Goth and sounds like New Wave done badly And/or Rave Music (which are already fringe scenes to begin with.)
Posted 1 year ago # -
First let's define Industrial. Way too many definitions are far too complicated or specific. Industrial has become a Supergenre, like Rock. It does not have one distinct sound, only elements which definite it very, very broadly.
Mostly dark
Often harsh
Largely electronicThat captures many things some would not consider Industrial, but is a lot more useful
in practical terms, especially for this discussion.Now, why isn't more popular? Three major things:
1) Aggressive, very dark, angry music is not huge in the first place. Even for
the largest Metal or Rap/angry Hip-Hop acts, how many sales do they have compared
to your "regular" pop acts?2) For historical reasons, two kinds of sounds have been considered acceptable for aggressive music: distorted guitars (Metal) and un-distorted, "tough" vocals (Rap/Hip-Hop). If things had happened happened differently, Metal (a broad sub-genre
of Rock) could be the tiny genre, and let's say, Hellectro (if it had magically
be possible to create in the 1980s) could be the huge thing. Mentally go back in time
and make it so that getting dark sounds out of synthesizers was easier than guitars,
and that any kid who wanted to make angry music could pick up a keyboard and a distortion pedal and get "good" (with whatever definition would have worked) harsh sounds, make Black Sabbath and Venom electronic acts, and change the decisions of some
early A&R people to pick Skinny Puppy's first albums as their "winners" rather than
Metallica's and you'd have something different. Do all this, and take away the synths
from the early 1980s synthpop bands (and turn them into Rock bands) to remove
the association between "synths" and "wimpiness."3) Rap and Metal, having much more defined elements, are far easier to latch onto
and build a fanbase around. To follow in those footsteps, you'd need to pick a particular genre of Industrial with specific attributes for people to latch onto. Supergenres by definition are going to have broad appeal only because the total
number of people who like its /subgenres/ add up to a lot. Does every Red Hot Chili Peppers fan love Led Zeppelin? Does every Beatles fan love Stone Temple Pilots? Add them up, and you wind up with a lot. Separate them out, and the numbers shrink quite
a bit.TLDR version: accidents of history drove culture to embrace certain kinds of sounds
as acceptable for the most popular harsh music at the expense of others. If you'd like
to change this, I recommend getting extremely wealthy and pushing a specific sub-genre of Industrial, relentlessly, until people who like dark and harsh music accept synths.
It took decades for Rock to get to where it is today, and it did so with huge
amounts of candy-pop stuff.Posted 1 year ago # -
Eric Christian
offlineMemberAnother thing. If Industrial music is so angry why does everyone dance to it instead of pummeling each other? I went and saw Slayer last night and they made it painfully obvious what every single act in the Industrial scene lacks and thats raw intensity. First of all, their stage rig is absolutely legendary. The lighting truss must have been 5 stories tall and it had hundreds of lights on it. Then each guitarist had 20 Marshall stacks behind them plus the PA was probably one of the loudest I've ever heard. The bass alone was literally moving your hair and clothing from 20 feet away.
I estimate there were somewhere around 5000 people attending at least and the pit was huge and brutal. Didn't see a single person "dancing" either. After seeing some of the Rammstein tour videos from this summer I'm betting if Combichrist got a permanent Guitarist and had a stage rig like this they could play shows at this level. I think thats half the problem with Industrial as well and that has to do with the perpetuation of people perceptions of your act. Ergo, you show up with a little X-Frame Stand, a Laptop and Midi Controller and no amps behind you thats all you're ever gonna do and no one is ever gonna expect more, plus you'll never create a buzz about your live shows. On the other hand, you show up with a custom stage rig, pro keyboards, and a guitarist with a shitload of stacks behind him or her and you're gonna make waves. This is why no one likes Industrial... its own worst enemy because it has a self-fufilling prophecy of failure...
[+] Embed the video Get the Video Plugins Posted 1 year ago # -
S80
offlineShots for all !You mean people don't like seeing 1 douche on stage in welder goggles and a gas mask playing DOOM?
Let's face it, it's a terrible scene, not even a shell of it's former self. Everything about it just screams fail. Artists used to do so much better not just in terms of live shows but in writing as well. The quality of Industrial/EBM has been in a steady decline since the 90's, but this is what people seem to want, well the majority of people anyways. They love the stale flavourless, colourless taste of the current clubby trend.
People don't mind that the vast majority of artists put little to no effort into it because they are simple people. Low expectations in life so they have none from the music they listen to. Others like myself aren't like that, probably why I rip on this music so much now.
Posted 1 year ago # -
xeno
offlineMemberBecause it's not "in" in the musical press / elite. At least in the newspapers here, the reviews are like
"Unfortunately, the album is influenced a bit by industrial music, and since that's totally uncool, I'm gonna score them 2 points down just because of that"...
Posted 1 year ago # -
xeno
offlineMemberCharlieAngel wrote:
1) The scene is full of elitist know-it-all fuckwits that run the new blood off with attitude at every single chance.
2) You can only write the same 5 songs so many times before people start to catch on...
3) A whole lot of bitching and whining about everything. Seriously, is there a more self-loathing scene anywhere? Even the emo kids fuck, for chrissakes. The Industrial kids just type really angrily in trade chat.
4) Lots of bitching, no solutions. I hate the guy at work that just bitches non-stop, not because he bitches, but because he has no ideas on how to fix the problems. Yes, dude, it sucks. Shut the fuck up or fix it.
.. and so on...
Basically, that doesn't matter shit, since most people have never even heard 5 industrial songs...
Posted 1 year ago # -
What is the goal of this thread? Is it to determine why no-one else has achieved the level of fame as Nine Inch Nails, or is it to figure out why even as a small niche it is dying out among our own listeners?
I would argue that Trent succeeded where almost everyone else failed was that he promoted mainly outside the genre. How many artists would play Lolapalooza or Woodstock if they were given the chance? Plus, he was a product of the times. In '88 had a fresh new, raw, grittier sound that retained enough rock structure to be marketable. That's why bands like Stabbing Westward "made it". If 16Volt had gotten that breakthrough and chance to play in front of the masses Eric Powell might be a household name.
As to why it is dying among us, you've already answered that. Anyone with a laptop can make music. Everyone wants to focus on their fashion (or other people's fashion). Everyone wants to bitch about everything in the scene. So on and so on. They're all great answers. So why do we keep doing it?
Unfortunately, the best answer is also the worst answer. We're proud to be elitists that make better music than the super-popular genres, but our own elitism is what makes people (and ourselves) dislike us. I mean really, 99% of pop on the radio and MTv is done by a session musician and paid writer, and they get some cookie-cutter tard that has the image that will sell a million records. Rap, R&B, Hip-Hop, whatever, discover some local talent, drag them into a big studio and auto-tune them to some shit synth line that were they in this scene would be the biggest joke. Yet both genres are raking in millions of dollars because they're getting professionals crafting every aspect of their music and image, and like someone earlier said, their music is marketable.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Eric Christian
offlineMember"Unfortunately, the best answer is also the worst answer. We're proud to be elitists that make better music than the super-popular genres, but our own elitism is what makes people (and ourselves) dislike us. I mean really, 99% of pop on the radio and MTv is done by a session musician and paid writer, and they get some cookie-cutter tard that has the image that will sell a million records. Rap, R&B, Hip-Hop, whatever, discover some local talent, drag them into a big studio and auto-tune them to some shit synth line that were they in this scene would be the biggest joke. Yet both genres are raking in millions of dollars because they're getting professionals crafting every aspect of their music and image, and like someone earlier said, their music is marketable."
Yes. You can't have your cake and eat it too. In the same token one can't be all cool and underground with your elite bad-ass self yet be popular as well. Being pretentious and part of a snobbish cliche whilst making ersatz abrasive music that in all reality is pretty softcore doesn't impress much of anyone. Except of course me and a handfull of people around the world... hah
Industrial used to be on track to be the next "big thing" i.e. the genre of "Cyber" but of course we all know it got polluted with that burned out raver/goth ebm crap... Its like we were gonna be the Borg but instead we ended up wearing Tribbles around our ankles instead.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Chri0s-Cha0s
offlineMemberLol, I'm picutring those goat-like fuzzy leggings the girls wear when you mention "trebbles around our ankles"....
Posted 1 year ago # -
Cult of the Bleeding Toe
offlineAlways ConfusedI refuse to believe that you need guitars to make angry music. That's just stupid.
Or if that's true, people are stupid for riding off agressive non guitar music.Posted 1 year ago # -
soillodge
offlineTech ModeratorYou do not NEED guitars to make angry aggressive music. What we do need though is more electro bands to tour with real rock or metal bands. Then they can pick up a bit of showmanship. Combi is a good example of this. Andy was in rock bands long before he went the electro direction. He definitely knows what he is doing live and keeps the audience intrigued.
`michael
Posted 1 year ago # -
Eric Christian
offlineMember@cult
"I refuse to believe that you need guitars to make angry music. That's just stupid.
Or if that's true, people are stupid for riding off agressive non guitar music."No, what I'm saying is that Guitar is only a part of an overall image and persona that a specific band develops. Guitars by themselves don't incite intensity. A perfect example would be the Combichrist show where Black Light Burns opened up. People were just standing around static with a puzzled look on their faces sort of giving half-assed applause between songs yet when Combi started there was a huge pit. In the videos from the Rammstein tour Combi got a pit going right away even though they were opening and had no personal guitarist. IMHO, there are only 4-5 Industrial bands at this point that have the intensity to incite a mosh pit and thats SP, FLA, KMFDM, Combi and P9 if it still exist. Sorry to say, but my observation is that everything else is just music to Dance to...
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm not overly pro- or anti-guitars, I like plenty of music of both varieties. But one common theme is that the one man studio bands have the same similar complaints when they're live: they just stand there. Most live guitarists at the very least move around. I don't know about you, but whether or not the music was good, my biggest complaint with seeing a band live isn't the quality of the show, it's that I felt like I might as well have listened to the CD.
Trent could have easily toured as a solo or two-piece outfit and stood there to some background programming or played keyboards. But every time he tours he assembles a live band. That might not be the best example, but it was the first one that popped in my head.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Just a random thought I had: If one were to do a case study with everyday normal people, and take a wide sampling of various styles of industrial and then compile the data, what trends do you think would be prevalent? That is, what would people like, dislike, change, etc.? This was more of a rhetorical question, because you guys have been touching on that a little.
The $64,000 question is, if an artist catered his/her music around this data and broke out into the mainstream, even if it was just enough to maybe get a video on MTv or get commercial radio airplay at 2am, would we still respect them? Or would we treat them like the punk community treated Green Day when they "sold-out"? I think we would probably treat them worse. Look at all the flak you give Combichrist, and since Nine Inch Nails, he's one of the best things for industrial because he's getting known outside our little community. I'm not afraid to admit that I wouldn't be on this forum right now if it wasn't for bands like NIN and Marilyn Manson catching my attention and making luring me away from metal. If Andy is able to do the same, regardless of personal feelings about his music, should we wish him (or anyone else) ill luck at mainstream success?
Posted 1 year ago # -
S80
offlineShots for all !It's all about passion and standing behind your music....which no one does anymore, you can tell the bands that do and the bands that don't. Some bands have been doing the same live shows for decades while others are constantly experimenting with new ideas for their shows. Prime example Covenant...yes I like their music but I have seen them live 3 times and all 3 times it was the same shit with a different set list, just 3 guys in suits bouncing around pretending to play music while some fat hairy stage hand is manning the Sony 5 disc changer behind the curtain, same goes for VNV and SITD...industrial karaoke baby.
Cryog3n you touched on the fact that they sound like the CD, but what do we as fans expect when we go to a live show where it's only 2 guys on stage and even the most dim witted fuck with 0 knowledge of music knows that 2 people couldn't possibly do that sound live. I'd rather see a 5 piece band where they constantly make mistakes just for the sheer effort of it.
I said it earlier but this scene has regressed, we haven't move forward. One would think that since electronic music has become so much easier to make now that the sound would have evolved but it hasn't.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Let's not get things confused though. What do you expect Covenant to do on stage? He actually sang and since vocals are the focus of their music that's good performance.
On the other hand, you go to a Depeche Mode concert. There isn't even room for you to breathe. You watch this bad ass video and stage show, and there are so many keys and drums and everything, and you think, wow they're playing really good, only to find out that the entire thing was just playback except Dave's vocals. So how does that compare?
Posted 1 year ago #
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