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Was The Scene Stronger Pre Internet?

(61 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by mechapop
  • Latest reply from soillodge
  • 2 Members Subscribed To Topic

  1. @Blackoil:
    I have a couple friends that were industrial scenesters in the late 80's, and I can't even get them to go out to modern shows...when I do, they just seem to be wanting to leave. Now granted, if I could actually remember any of the scene shows I've been to in the last few years(damn people buying me drinks) I would point out how the same intensity punches through with modern shows...

    But alas, I remember *many* a tumbleweed and cricket night at both shows and concerts back in the mid through late 1990's. I remember being one of only a few people at Decoded Feedback in 99'. One of maybe like a dozen or so at a weekday Dive show. I think I meant more, it seemed like in some aspects it was more of a treat for people to come out to clubs or shows back then. I remember coming out to small shows in torrential flash flood rain, however often it was(and still is) the "big names" that really packs a venue. There was a local monthly showcase held in a condemned rundown theater I'd go to that seemed to always be backed(94-95 era) despite people not really knowing who was playing. Just the fact it was a goth industrial sort of night made people come out, but I recall seeing Good Courage and some other acts there.

    Perhaps this is fodder for another discussion, but it's amazing how far some people will travel for a show; or even a club. So many times I've met people at clubs/shows and had to ask them again "wait, where did you say you drove from?" Of course, friends and I have made the trek to Los Angeles just for Das Bunker, which is about 12 hours plus roundtrip.

    And you're pretty right on about the circa 2004 Noitekk/Suicide Commando ripoff
    sound being what the Puppy ripoff phenomenon was back then.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. There is WAY too much text in this thread. We didn't have that pre internet.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. @Sumez: Remember this late 90's gem? The RIO PMP300 hand held portacle mp3 player circa 1998, for only $200 you could hold up to 12 mp3 songs! :)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_PMP300

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. I remember the Rio to be a lot bigger. Back then (around 99 I think) I got myself a cheap Discman that would play MP3s. That's 120 songs per CD!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. @Seraphin - I stopped going to clubs when I hit my 30s except when I played shows. To be honest, I always thought it was kind of sad seeing aging goths and couldn't handle the depression it caused.

    I guess my point is that any scene survives when the youth get into it. In the late 80s, EBM was the new punk. You went to FLA, SP shows to rebel against the mainstream. Nowadays kids pick mostly gangsta rap or black metal to get this fix while the electronic youth stay home and play video games. Don't get me wrong, I also play games, but, I never did that at the expense of heading out.

    See people, the mere presence of you on this board shows that you had/have an unusual passion. No wonder people like you and I were one of the few people who attended these shows. The 'extra' folk are back listening to Daughtry or whatever lame alterna-emo-rock band is out. They were never really in this scene to begin with.

    My band once played a show to 2 people. 2! And we were the opening act. When we were done those 2 people left and no one watched the headliner who was on a U.S. tour.

    But, here's the deal. I can except a lot of things, but I will never except that our scene has bad music. Not compared to the horrific junk i hear on the radio and TV. I think that our scene has the worst marketing and publicity of any scene ever. We're not punk enough, not danger-goth enough for the extremists, and we're not normal enough for the safe kids. Long post I know, sorry 'bout that.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. The Black Oil

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    Member

    I think I meant more, it seemed like in some aspects it was more of a treat for people to come out to clubs or shows back then.

    I agree with this. Everything did seem more of a "holy relic" back then, though whether that was simply a product of the environment we all grew up with, who can say?

    I just can't see attaching much value at all to a sound file, but if I had grown up knowing nothing else....

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. S80

    I still love Industrial/EBM but I find myself buying less and less of the new stuff and buying more of the old school stuff
    <--------------------------------------

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. @pool waiter:
    you said >>>>"I think that our scene has the worst marketing and publicity of any scene ever."<<<<

    Oh no doubt. When freaking neo Nazi racist punk and metal music makes more money and has more marketing than the American EBM scene, you know its bad news.

    Some would argue it's good that the EBM(/futurepop/'aggrotech'/power noise/etc) scene
    is the most under marketed, untapped("rivet" is the only subculture Hot Topic hasnt pimped out yet), and underground music subculture out there.

    I know when I wear my VNV, Combichrist, Suicide Commando or Puppy shirts I like how only a few people who get it, will get it...as much as Im sure we all wish the bands out there could make more money.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. campee

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    Member

    If it wasn't for the Internet I wouldn't have heard of any of this music. I wouldn't have gone to any concerts and I wouldn't have bought any CDs. Industrial was more mainstream back then so the scene was bigger. It has fallen out of the mainstream and less people know about it now. I bet it would be even smaller if not for the Internet.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. bubba

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    Member

    Oh the age old debate.

    Things were a lot more honest pre-internet, in most cases to listen to this type of music (whatever you prefer) was to have to step outside social norms. There was no discussion group for any of this, the IRC was king. Do I prefer it as it was? No. Time marches on and all the mediocrity inherent in the wake of this device is easily dealt with:

    Ignore it.

    The main achievement of the internet seems to have been to proliferate pop culture into every last nook and cranny of musical output. Like a plague it has overrun all 'genres' and 'scenes'. Everyone wants to be someone now and thanks to that charming mr. murdoch, they can be. Good for them.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. @campee: true. From the early to late 90's, "industrial" was on the radio all the time if you count in NIN, Rammstein, KMFDM, Ministry, etc. But 242, Ebb, FLA, Puppy as well were on majors or major indies. Electronic music by 1996-1999 in the US was mainstream in some form, of course whats been popular since 2000 is bad madonna wannabe pop and
    post Pearl Jam like alternagrunge emo rock.

    @bubba: speaking of time machine to the recent past, I just saw the trailer for "hot tub time machine" where they go back to 1986

    [+] Embed the videoGet the Flash Videos

    It'd be funny to go back to 1994. I think I still have my unbearably bad puppy meets alien sex fiend wannabe demo tape from around then.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. CthuLee

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    Inactive

    I'm beginning to think EVERYTHING was stronger pre-internet.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. "Was The Scene Stronger Pre Internet?"

    In my part of the world (PDX) there was a real flat spot around 98-02 but it seems about the same as the early 90's now. 300 or more people showed up for KMFDM, around 500 for Skinny Puppy and probably over 200 for Combichrist. Funny thing was I went down to see Combichrist in Phoenix on Halloween and there were less people at that show compared to PDX which I thought was odd. Trouble is, not many people show up for a lot of the smaller name bands, especially if its on a weekday.

    For me the internet helps me find new bands. I listen to their myspace songs and if I like it I give my local guy a call and he orders it in. Pretty simple. I think people keep getting confused and try to compare Industrial music with popular music in their expectations. I think even some artist themselves got confused and thought they were gonna get rich doing underground music somehow. However, I think this is what seperates bubble gum pop artists who have an army of agents, producers, engineers, songwriters and p.r. people behind them and someone like Bill Leeb who is a true artist and creates his music for its own intrinsic value is the sheer fact that I'm betting Bill Leeb creates music that he likes to listen to.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. bubba

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    Member

    "it seems about the same as the early 90's now"

    I live in Portland, it's not the same as the early 90s; light years removed. Fuck this town. This place is a beige hell.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. uberbyte

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    Member

    The problem is this.

    When people talk about music too much it means they're not listening to it.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. Cult of the Bleeding Toe

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    Always Confused

    ^well said!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. Brapley

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    Member

    >>"You'd see someone at the store with a puppy shirt, and you became instant friends("holy crap, you're into them too???") Hell, it didn't even have to be someone into 242, FLA, Bigod 20, X Marks, or SA42...someone could wear a KMFDM or Ministry shirt and you'd feel compelled to make an instant bond."<<

    Are you complaining that you never find people in industrial shirts in public any more, or that they're not as friendly? A few years ago I was into collecting shirts of all my favourite bands, thinking that it would be a good way to meet people, but people didn't really comment on them. Either nobody cared about the bands, or its just not a thing people bond over anymore. I do occasionally get comments from guys about 15 years older than me saying how much they WERE into Skinny Puppy back in the day...

    It's kind of funny, though, the context in which people would "bond" over something like that. Like to me, at least, I might be compelled to be someone's friend if I saw him or her wearing an industrial shirt at school, but not if I saw the same person in the same shirt at an industrial club- because then it's not like you have anything unique in common, it's just something that everyone there is into, so you have no safe "justification" for attempting to socialize with any particular strangers (maybe that sounds a little messed up, but this is kind of why I'm not fond of clubs). I guess the internet is like that too... If you're talking about music with a bunch of people at a real life party and someone else has heard of Individual Totem, that's pretty cool! If you're talking about music on Side-Line, even some sort of obscure industrial bands are "universally known" in this context, so I don't feel like we have anything special in common for listening to them.

    I still buy almost all of my music in physical shops. So there are a few obvious gaps in my collection that I could probably pretty easily fill by shopping online, but I'll just wait until the stuff I want shows up IRL because it'll be more exciting that way. There's also a lot of music in my collection that I probably wouldn't own if I didn't happen to randomly find it while shopping. Fortunately I know some great shops for industrial CDs and I'd like to keep it that way. (And when I do buy music online, it's ALWAYS mail order, never downloads!)

    >>"when the cold war was full on, people had very real fears, which we're very really exploited, and you got an awesome and fertile ground to have meaningful lyrics and saying "children limbless corpses" held some value. now, when capitalism prevailes, we still live in party-time, so when you say, something like, i dont know, fuck bush, or fuck climate change, you sound and look like a dick"<<

    I think there are a lot of people out there who have a very real fear of modern capitalism!

    This topic is kind of inspiring me to actually go write for that 'zine I keep telling myself I'll publish. Photocopies only, no online edition. I suppose I'll post here when I have copies available to mail out. :)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. I do not think we can blame technology for any of this. I feel this problem was caused by aggressively marketing and adding accessibility to an idea that shunned that very concept. It alienated the oldest fans, and has given the new fans very little of substance to even give a fuck about. The shelf-life of most bands in this scene is 5 years. The big problem is so many bands claiming to be relevant after their time is up. Still having the same ideas and techniques that they used 5 years prior. There is very little evolution and a lot of riding on the back of 90's styled dance music.

    @TBO- I cannot agree with you about older comps like the Celtic Circle Samplers. Sure, many bands took a Bite out of SP, but the comps back then were much more varied and had more substance than what has been released in the last few years. I could go into detail if you want me to. There is already enough text on this thread to start writing a new US healthcare bill..

    `michael

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. I think everyone is losing focus talking about t-shirts and such when the real subject should be on the artistic content that a band creates. If anything, the Internet has had a positive effect on the distribution of music that would otherwise be popular only on a local basis. To me its a crystal ball that allowed me to find many different bands before they really even established themselves. This is a good thing.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. CthuLee

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    There will be much gnashing of teeth....and waving of canes.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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