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Was The Scene Stronger Pre Internet?

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Started 2 years ago by mechapop
Latest reply from soillodge
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mechapop

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I'M NOT GAY!!

I've heard that Leatherstrip's Solitary Confinement did unheard of unit sales around the time of its release, as did some of the early to mid 90's Front Line Assembly releases(along with a number of other major and smaller indie label acts)

Now...if a band sells 5000 physical cds, it's a celebrated event(and, well deservedly so)

I remember this magical sense of awe and enthusiasm in the American "goth industrial" scene in the early to mid 1990's before everyone was online...be it clubs, shows, etc.
You'd see someone at the store with a puppy shirt, and you became instant friends("holy crap, you're into them too???") Hell, it didn't even have to be someone into 242, FLA, Bigod 20, X Marks, or SA42...someone could wear a KMFDM or Ministry shirt and you'd feel compelled to make an instant bond.

I remember the excitement of getting Industrial Nation around 94-95, along with actual cassette mix tapes from people, Cleopatra catalogs, etc. I remember the beats seemed more complex, rather than the disco stuff today. (Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE modern EBM fan)

I remember word of mouth alone would bring a ton of people to even unknown industrial show lineups, whereby simply the fact industrial(as it was known in the US before "EBM" got recoined in the late 1990's for the scene) was advertised would bring throngs of the "goth industrial" crowd in.

Now days? A promoter can blanket everywhere with flyers, post endlessly on myspace/facebook/livejournal, and have everyone they know show up for a major scene band and maybe only get 50 people at best. (I remember seeing Icon of Coil in 2004 as well as Assemblage 23 and there was barely 60 people at each)
Clubs seem to be even worse; people would travel far and wide to go to a scene club; but depending what geographic region one is in...the advent of a packed club is a rarity. Much less so, are people who keep up with the music.
A vast majority of people who go to scene clubs/shows in the states seem to mostly be there to be seen and futher along their cliquey drama soap opera with their inner circles.

I was a bit late to the scene myself, having heard stories of amazing 242 shows from 1988, and even more amazing Puppy shows from 90' and 92' respectively...but aside from
the Los Angeles scene which always seems to remain rather sizeable; from the rest of America the "scene" seems pretty much on life support(as much as one would think it'd be booming what with filesharing and networking sites)

Posted 2 years ago #
ilion conflict

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Music had a lot more mystery pre-internet. We actually made actual flyers and not just internet posts. Music seems more disposable now...almost too accessible.

Posted 2 years ago #
silikonanswer

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ilion conflict, can't agree more! I remember buying records in physical shops. Now you have google and you have everything. But don't be too nostalgic, there is a lot there to discover.

Posted 2 years ago #
parasekt

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the "good old days" are almost never as good as we remember it. i mean i do agree that it doesn't have the same feel as the 90s but what genre does? I was bitching about how industrial music as a whole now is just pure rancid shit and there should be no reason why i should feel like a old guy in a rocking chair talking about "back in my day". everybody has their opinion about what to do about it all, for me honestly i say go back to basics. i dont mean the whole old school revival i mean to start from scratch and stray from the mainstream like our 4 fathers did 100 years or whenever this crappy music was formed.

Posted 2 years ago #
soillodge

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It's a whole new playing field and most our labels and artists have yet to catch on to this fact. We are still in transition and may be so for another year or two.

`michael

Posted 2 years ago #
r3mote

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godsgirls all the way

hey ilionconflict, whats up with your cd ? im guessing youre still going to release one, yes?

Posted 2 years ago #
Sumez

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Some of the best bands of the current scene rarely sell 500 units.

Posted 2 years ago #
Electro Aggression Records-EAR

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Sumez

Sad but true:(

Posted 2 years ago #
amiles

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This is a difficult one to answer because the EBM/Industrial scene was at it’s height mid 80’s to early 90’s. All I can say is that I’ve discovered more new bands because of the internet than before it. However saying this I’m choosier with what I buy. I like to hear samples or whole tracks before I buy. There have been many bands CD’s I’ve chosen not to buy because they have no samples on their website or myspace page.

Yes, club scene is bad. In the UK nearest to me would be London and hour by the train and because of the useless public transport system no way of getting home.

Radio play is even worse as most here think Simon Cowell invented music and before that Stock Aitken Waterman. There is no room in UK airwaves for anything different apart from bland pop music. Maybe from dance on Friday night, a bit of Jazz and classical. At least when John Peal was around he would play some different stuff.

Posted 2 years ago #
Pool Waiter

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That was an awesome post mechapop. When looking at the degrading industrial scene I can't help but think that every scene has seen this like parasekt said. People bitch about the quality of music now but these people must have forgotten the wretched garbage released in the late 80s and early 90s that only survived due to lack of choice <cough> Severed Heads <cough>.

For that reason I think that blaming the internet is hitting the right tree but I think the target is that the internet and video games have made people even more anti-social than before. It isn't the prevalence of music that is killing things, it is this current generation of stay at home nerds. I also heartily agree with ilion's reference to "mystery". you went to see bands in the 80s and 90s because, if you didn't, you had no idea what they were like live. Now, you go online and can see them in vids and live bits and lose interest.

I think the music scene in general is at an all time low. We are in between waves where the old one is crashing down and the new one is but a whimper. Why do people not have the same need I did when I was younger to go to a club and thrash around for 4 hours for the pure joy of getting into the music and not the drama? Because they're at home playing WoW like nerds. Nerd generation. Sad.

Posted 2 years ago #
Electro Aggression Records-EAR

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Pool Waiter

Spot on:)

Posted 2 years ago #
uberbyte

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The internet has brought out the worst of this scene.

IMHO of course.

So on the whole. Yes. Bad thing. I think we'd still be up there if we weren't too busy being "down here" squabbling with each other about who's band is better than whose and the endless arguments about what Industrial actually is that mean nothing at all.

Opinion of course. But it gets in the way and allows bullshit to foster. And ultimately you could draw a nice graph that would illustrate "popularity of industrial" vs "amount of stupid internet bullshit" and I'd bet my bottom dollar the relationship would be amost exactly inverse.

Posted 2 years ago #
The Black Oil

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There may have been more people coming out back then, but no, I don't think things were any more "pure" back then than now. Those warm feelings are nothing more than the typical nostalgia everyone feels about the years of their youth when everything was new and they weren't jaded yet.

Unless it was a big name or a local act (and sometimes even so), live shows were STILL sparsely attended most times. Unknown bands still struggled. And the cliques and drama in the clubs were as ubiquitous as nowadays, with very few really caring that deeply about the music.

Sure, the music seemed better to me, but again, that's probably nostalgia and wide-eyed youth talking.

Posted 2 years ago #
Necrotek

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I think it's a combination of both - I agree with mechapop and ilion conflict, but also with The Black Oil.

It can't be denied that there is more noise-to-signal with the internet and the development of music technology so that anyone can make a track anywhere and put it out for mass consumption. There is no quality control - you don't even have to have good production. Talent still shines through, but it's harder and harder to find among all the CRAP.

There is too much music and too little time - if you're like me you might have even gotten to the point where you spend more time checking out new music than you do listening to the music you have. That alone means that I don't have time to listen to things I 'just like' - I have to REALLY love something to buy it and listen to it repeatedly.

I also don't make 'experimental purchases' any more - where I've only heard one track or a few samples or I like the album cover. Used to do that a lot. Now I have to KNOW I am going to like something before I spend money on it.

Of course, if you're an old-schooler, you always have to ask yourself 'is it really the world that has changed, or just me and my perspectives' - in this case I definitely think it's a combination of both.

Posted 2 years ago #
GIGATRONIK

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Sauce King of Germany

Pre internet was great. I still have my old industrial nation magazines with reviews of new releases circled. Getting CD's in the mail was fun and also shopping at digital underground in Philly. Now people send me so much music on the computer. I really can never sit down and enjoy it all and take much away from it.
Back in the day i would only be able to buy about 4 or 5 Cd's a month and I would listen to them to death.

Posted 2 years ago #
Necrotek

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>> I still have my old industrial nation magazines

me too! i also liked Propaganda, Permission and AP.

>> Getting CD's in the mail was fun

totally! although it still is for me when the cd is portion control or something like that :)

>> and also shopping at digital underground in Philly.

i was there in 1992, bought 'tactical neural implant' at that store, then spent the night wandering around downtown all fucked up and listening to nothing but that fla and 'last rights' by sp. fun!

>> Back in the day i would only be able to buy about 4 or 5 Cd's a month and I would listen to them to death.

ditto. i remember driving 120 miles to a specialty store that carried dead can dance, or dive, or some other exotic rare import, and paying $30-40 for 20-45 minutes of music. the cd/lp had so much value it felt like you had a holy relic or something.

Posted 2 years ago #
S80

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Shots for all !

Oh god another post I am gonna sound like I am whining in.

When you compare the music of the old days to the music of today you find that old school industrial/ebm actually had a message and a purpose. It wasn't about who's beat was fattier or who could pack the club floor better. It was about the music, the song writing and the message that came through. Music today lacks all of these elements and is 110% disposable. Back in the mid 90's I used to love going to the record store and just randomly picking 5 albums and taking them home. You would do this and come to find that all 5 albums had a different vibe and sound to them, but you do this now and more often then not all 5 albums will sound the exact same. It's because like I said they are all going for that fat club beat to pack the floor instead of writing a solid well thought out album.

The internet did not kill the scene, the lack of trying on albums is what did it in. If anything the internet has helped prolong the complete death of it.

Posted 2 years ago #
epytoneC

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Agreed with Giga and Necro. The value has been taken away, in a big way.

I find myself being a total hermit in the near future. I am not letting this new tide of losers get me down. I am seriously just about to stop going out to clubs, altogether. I love this music. I am sick to death of trying to convince this new crop of idiots that what I love is amazing. It already know it is. If they can't see it for what it is, get lost.

The one relief that I have, as an artist, is that I will never make a living on this shit. Therefore I can do whatever the hell I please, whenever i please. If I could, I would release Cenotype in a certain format and just give it directly to people and tell others that they weren't allowed to have it.

I thought it was hilarious the last time I saw Babyland in NYC. The played this little hipster shit hole bar called the CakeShop. The place was like the size of my home studio. The power kept going out during the set. I think they only got to play like 2 songs. needless to say, the lead singer had a shit fit about the venue, told the crowd that they ere done and apologized. Some people had the nerve to Boo them.

Like what are you supposed to do? There is no power?!?

The lead singer told those people to their faces to go fuck themselves and asked them never to buy any other Babyland merch and to never show up at a show again.

That hit me, in a big way. It was all so clear.

This music is ours, not theirs.

Posted 2 years ago #
UH417

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There is music being released that has message and purpose, people on this forum just have a confused sense of taste.

I mean, the SubCon From / Beyond the Vault series caters to that whole album as a "holy relic" situation. The same could be said about what SoiSong are doing.

If not content there, then why not look towards those crazy Raster-Noton guys. who's work goes well and beyond the scope of innovation that can be found anywhere else in electronic music today.

Just because this "scene" is collapsing into irrelevancy (-with good reason) doesn't mean the rest of the music being made in the world is equally as dull and boring!

Posted 2 years ago #
amiles

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I think there's also the added dimension that society has changed: all this postmodernity! When I was younger listening to Gary Numan, Ultravox my parents hated my music, same for the generation before and before that! Now a lot of parents and their kids listen to the same music... Goth/industrial/EBM or whatever is seen as rebellious and anti-social. Even the press gets onto the act... someone somewhere went crazy shooting people and just happening to be some strange electronic music that drive them to do it.

Posted 2 years ago #