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This r srs post: Role of labels in MP3 age?

(37 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by Rogue Process
  • Latest reply from panzerschreck

  1. Okay, apologies for the kind of generic header here and the cross-post, but this is something I would really like people's opinions on, whatever they may be.

    To try and show where I'm coming from, I make industrial/EBM/whatever music. I'd, at least one day, like to become, well maybe not famous, but at least known for what I do, and for me, part of that ambition has always involved being signed to a good scene label at some stage, as I have tended to look up to labels as a kind of means to judge whether a release is 'quality' or not (i.e. such-and-such label is releasing the new album by x-band, I'd better go check that out). To put simply, the idea of being signed to a label would I hope be indicative that I've reached a certain level of doing what I do well, and that people would be inclined to check my music out. Or at the very least, it would feel great to be held in the same esteem as some of the artists I admire.

    However, within the last few months, I've found myself really questioning this notion. Although it's something I've studied, I'm honestly pretty naive to what exactly goes on within a record label; and for me, the waters have kind of been muddied these past few years with the rise of services like TuneCore, BandCamp, CDBaby and so on. I've always assumed that a label's main task was to promote the artists that sign to it, but from talking to a few friends who have dealt with labels more than I have, that doesn't seem to always be the case; and from looking at some labels, they often state as part of their demo policy that they look for bands who are able to promote themselves well.

    What I mean to say is, if not to promote an artist, what exactly are the benefits of signing to a label right now? A lot of the tools for distributing music are now right at the hands of the musician, and handling things such as merchandise, internet presence, distribution, payment, etc are easier to do than ever.

    Have I got the wrong end of the stick? Is there any glaring oversight that I have not considered? I do not in any sense mean to be negative here, rather I am just very curious as to what exactly record labels offer that would make them a more attractive prospect than going completely DIY. Of course, I'd love to hear opinions from anybody who runs a label, but even just anyone who knows more than I do about the subject!

    Cheers!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. Undercult

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    I think you've hit the nail on the head with your first comment. I myself am not signed, but hope one day to be (as you do) but my brother is signed and is doing quite well (in the dancey trancey world) and as you said, its more of a 'so you can say you were released on metropolis' thing.
    That being said, they also help you organize tours with other bigger bands on the label, and help you network all the connections you need, and maybe front you with cash for recordings/gigs. It all depends who you get signed too and what they're willing to do for you/how big they are.
    I've been offered a to be signed up to a few indie labels, but have turned it down, as they needed more help than I did and wanted me to pay them instead of the other way round.

    The main problem in Industrial (just like trance with my brother) I feel, is that as its so difficult to hit it big in any way, no one is willing to put the time, money and effort into an artist as the pay off is likely to be small (if anything) and so you're left to promote yourself, and they act as a bit of a lubricant and a bit as a 'if you get a following, we can sell your records and say we always supported you' thing.

    Cue angry indie record managers and the like screaming about how much effort they put in.

    EDIT:
    I also forgot to say that a large role is (or at least should be) legal backing and the like. I know a few people that have gotten into trouble (people claiming they stole the song or whatever) and if you've got any kind of decent label they'll sort it out. So, sign for the big corps!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. @ Undercult - Yeah man, I hear you on that, definitely a few things I hadn't really considered. Heh. I'm generally pretty piss-awful when it comes to promoting my tunes, so I guess I was maybe a tad disappointed when I started to realize that promo wasn't nearly as big a thing for labels as I thought it would be :P

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. Brapley

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    If being on the same label as projects you admire makes you feel good, go for it. I don't know which option (label vs. DIY) is financially better right now but it doesn't seem like that is your main priority anyway.

    Also, if you want your project to be more prestigious, pick a format other than MP3! I pay way more attention to self-released physical formats than label-supported digital releases (which I don't buy at all).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. Undercult

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    @Rouge,
    Amen brother, I can't promote for shit. Seriously, if my life depended on me getting a song out to 1000 people in a month, I'd buy the coffin there and then.

    I hate aggressive advertising/spamming, and narrowly missed the myspace music boom. I realized the same thing, and the promo companies you can go to are rubbish, I tried one, spent £50 on it and got nowhere, they just spammed a few forums and put a small banner up on a few rubbish websites that looked like this:
    WHATEVER THE NAME MARKETING AND PROMOTION:
    try undercult.
    BUT WE ARE AN AWESOME MARKETING FIRM.

    I really don't know what the answer is, but getting signed to a good label (alpha matrix/metropolis/whatever) would still be amazing and i'm sure they'd help out just by being on the label. I think its just a case of not bothering with the indie labels unless they're either run by a very famous artist and actually good, or they really are going to be useful somehow.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. Undercult

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    I agree with Brapley that digital releases by labels seem rubbish, and I never go for them. However, trying to release a physical format EP/LP costs absolutely loads and you've either got to be willing to get loads printed for it to be economicaland I (you'll be hard pressed to find any unsigned industrial band that's sold 2000 ep's) or it'll look rubbish and cheap, and still cost you loads.

    One quick tip, I promoted a lot of my music to university goth societies and alternative clubs and the like, they normally publish a mix cd to get people interested and you can normally get on for free. Just a thought of how you can push abit more.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. interestingly enough, i asked martin from fix8:sed8 about why he never signed to a label because his music is fucking AWESOME! he basically said he wants free artistic creation, makes sense, and the simple fact that out of the 13 USD he charges, he gets the full 13 instead of with a label, he'd get 1-2 USD. now that fucking blew me out of the water, 1-2 FUCKING dollars? are you shitting me? im sure self-promotion is not fun but for 11-12$ extra per cd, i think it might be worth it. he mentioned he may NOW sign to a label to reach extra people but fuck i think he should just leave it the way it is.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. fuck promotion

    quality talks, shit walks

    you want to be a professional musician?... do music, all day, every fucking day.. and make sure people hear it

    you want to sustain yourself from your craft?... you'll have to do more and what you have to do is entirely situational

    i know nothing from personal experience... i've been drinking and am thus.. opinionated

    there are far too many ramifications to make broad generalizations about how to make it

    the simplest answer is often the most honest

    what do you want? a record deal?... then every moment you have to spend on your music should be spent on your music... and in between breaths you should be making sure that the other neccessities are being acomplished as well

    drive, and determination are so very important.. ofcourse you have to have talent or develop a talent... but i don't think the music industry is so fucked that wayward dreamers still can't make "it" whatever their personal 'it' is

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. I wrote a huge ass reply and just as I was copying it the page refreshed. This fucking place is completely asstastic. God damned piece of shit.

    `michael

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. Maybe you find this old thread helpful:

    http://www.side-line.com/side-line-forum/topic/record-labels-are-they-needed-anymore-1

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. he basically said he wants free artistic creation, makes sense, and the simple fact that out of the 13 USD he charges, he gets the full 13 instead of with a label, he'd get 1-2 USD. now that fucking blew me out of the water, 1-2 FUCKING dollars? are you shitting me? im sure self-promotion is not fun but for 11-12$ extra per cd, i think it might be worth it.

    That's if you sign with someone like Sony, sure. But almost all indie labels are going to give you a proper cut.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. kr-lik

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    *** FUCK THIS REFRESHING PAGE SHIT! CHANGE IT OR KILL ME!!! ***

    ... i'll try to write the same thing again in a sec...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. kr-lik

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    So...

    Our first CD was released on a label. A pretty known label too. I thought and still kinda do, that it was an amazing thing. Interviews for German zines. The fact that I can find my CD on a shelf in my local Media Markt. We even got to nr. 6 on DAC. That was (and still is) amazing. Not to mention the fact that I didn't pay for mastering, pressing the CDs. Bah I even got some money myself. (And yeah... it doesn't have to be SONY to make it around 1-2 euro per CD for the artist).

    But in the long run I don't think that much changed for my band. We never got any booking requests outside of Poland (all our "abroad" shows we did - were before the CD release) not to mention the fact that our fan-base didn't really get "that big" (whatever that means).

    The second album I'm releasing by myself. Yes, it means 100% creative freedom, which from one side is good and from another it isn't, meaning you can do whatever you like, but sometimes it's shit and there's no-one to tell you that. Yes, it means no interviews with german Zines. Yes, it means no news about us on Side-Line (even tho I've e-mailed them). And finally it means quite alot of money put into the whole production phase. BUT, if you set the price right, know more or less what's your fanbase, and have that money infront then you're good to go. Unfortunatelly I think this way also doesn't work well long-run.

    I don't know what's better to be honest. If you're going to go with a label be sure to READ the contract quite carefully as this might end up not the way You'd like it to later on.

    Either way. I think the business changed quite alot for the past few years. Like I wrote, we were able to play a gig in Edinburgh, in Utrecht or in Antwerp couple of years ago, even tho we didn't have a release out yet. Now, having 2 Albums out, one on a known label, I can't seem to get ANY gigs outside of Poland.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. Psykick Vampyr

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    My thought, like a lot of my thoughts, is 'depends'.

    I have releases through a number of labels who are, I think, of a decent size (for the genre anyway) and I've also done stuff through self-release or even through free downloads. They all have positive and negatives, they all are rewarding in their own way.

    Labels: I should stress that I'm talking about decent labels here. Your understanding of 'decent' may well be different from mine but a bad label experience will suck the very life from your soul.

    The main benefit is that you get to tap into the existing machinery of the label. The most obvious part of this is promotion but it's not necessarily always direct promotion of your record; people buy into a label's kudos so being on a good label gets you that 'halo effect'. Labels will also often being able to create more product at a lower cost that you probably could. They also take on the risk of your record not selling, the storage and distribution of the physical items, the order processing...lots of things that you, like me, might not want to be bothered with.

    Depending on the label, however, you may have to give up some artistic control. How you feel about this is up to you. I like to keep strict control of the Wraiths aesthetic and yet I let Auroroa Borealis create the Dust In Our Mouths artwork themselves, because we worked together on the design concept and the final product is great.

    Everything hinges on how much you trust the people at the label and what you're looking for.

    Self-release: To a great extent, this is the opposite of going with a label inasmuch as you become the label. You have total freedom in what you want to achieve but you also take on all the risk and effort. Some mug has to do everything and, in this case, that mug will be you.

    At best, you can make extravagant limited editions with a huge amount of personal investment. At worst, you end up with boxes of unwanted CDs under your bed.

    Net-release: This is a strange one as it's mostly a 'flavour' of self-release. You massively minimise the costs, in most cases, but you also minimise the possibilities of how the record is produced (whilst involving technical requirements that you may not be comfortable with). In my experience, you also get a lot less response from net releases which, as an artist interested in communication, can be strange to deal with.

    They're all channels, in the end, and one may suit a certain release more than others. You certainly don't have to make a choice and restrict yourself to one.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. "But almost all indie labels are going to give you a proper cut."

    This is not accurate. Read the contract and have an entertainment lawyer go though it as well.

    `michael

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. Psykick Vampyr

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    In all my musical dealings, I've never ever seen a contract let alone been asked to sign one.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. kr-lik

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    what soillodge said.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. I am going to attempt to paraphrase what I said in my long reply that S-L ate. Because I have been burned in this scene and I want to be helpful with my own observations.

    A record label only works if the industry it is modeled for is applicable. Most of the record labels in this scene are just middlemen to the distributor and only get promotional recognition through the inside channels. This is a piss poor way to operate and ever wish to break that low ceiling in this scene.

    We live in an era where technology is superseding general marketing and supply and demand. Meaning you can create a huge amount of hype for anything if you have the creativity and can harness the resources. It is important not to sign to a label that reacts like a dinosaur. Realize that the more you distribute your material through the normal channels-aka promo copies and worshiping the DAC, the more your material is going to end up on P2P and free-share sites. And then you will be going to commonplace follow-up blog "all you assholes that are stealing music are ruining the scene and you should feel bad about it", post. When it is the system that is corrupt-at the very core, not the user base, or your "audience".

    Creativity is key in all things. Remember that we love our audience. Follow the path of least resistance, offering the music to them in the formats that they want and will pay for, and funneling the profit as directly to you, the artist, as possible.

    If you do sign to a label, ask them about tour assistance, ask them where and how their promotional budget is spent for your release. Ask them about release formats, ask them about how they are going to support and develop you as an artist on their label. What will they do if you decided to evolve your style, as most artists tend to do. Treat it like a high profile job interview and have them sell their business to you as much as you sell yourself to them.

    You might find DIY is the most attractive resolution after all of this. I did :P

    `michael

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. Undercult

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    Yeah, agreed with soil again, I think alot of it hinges on what they're willing to do , I know alot of people (myself included) have gone 'right, big label likes me, automatic yes'
    Which I don't think is the best way, you need to check out what they're willing to do and what they're going to spend it on. I've got a friend who does Happy Hardcore and said that basically, although he got quite a few sales, all the money he made got funneled into other artists that were bigger/more important, so not only did he not get a good deal on the sales, he also didn't get anything back from the label, and after he bailed no one else would take him.
    However, the 'halo affect' and help with getting gigs is very useful, and although we have all the internet resources and whatever, Its still incredibly difficult to get anything realllly out there, without a huge amount of resources to pour into it initially.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. Thanks everyone, this has been really, really informative! I should stress that this was really more of a curious inquiry from somebody who hasn't long started out, and I'm not aggressively 'shopping' for labels this early on.

    I suppose I thought of a label's role as being more 'set in stone', but it makes sense that different labels operate differently. Am just on my break from work so no time for any long-ass contribution, but this is greatly appreciated :)

    Posted 1 year ago #

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