I think this settles it, we will need a Scooter cover or remix on the next Suicide Commando release.
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suicide commando IIXIII implements of hell
(177 posts)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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suicide commando
offlineMemberDamn, I should have asked them when I saw them at a fuel station couple of years ago. Yes, even Scooter has to go to a fuel station from time to time ... I was that close, almost could touch him ... just imagine !
But oh well, apart from that, I don't know that much about Scooter, I do know they had a few good songs, but also made a lot of rubbish ... but we're not here to talk about Scooter.Indeed I'm using quite some Vanguard sounds, along with Zeta+ sounds, but I try to avoid the regular preset sounds, and I still use a lot of hardware gear as well (Roland JP8000, Access Virus Indigo, Novation K-station, Roland SH201 ...). For me those softsynths are a nice and above all cheap (speaking in financial terms !) add to my hardware collection.
I must admit I'm not a real sound wizard sitting in front of my PC for hours just trying and adjusting one single sound, it's just not my thing ...Posted 1 year ago # -
Sewn
offlineMember@SC
I knew I heard some of those vanguard presets, or atleast tweaked versions of them. Cough <Radar> cough ;)
Posted 1 year ago # -
DE_TOT_COR
offlineMemberI dont understand what's wrong in using presets... If you have a "Gibson" guitar, you play notes/chords with a "Gibson" guitar. If you have "Vanguard" synth, you play notes/chords with it. Do we have to build our own guitars, and not using a preset-Gibson?
Just make music, use a preset-sound or a fork and a knife.
@djtekslave I agree with you: "God is in the rain" cant get out of my head too!
I like the new album, but it wont replace "Bind torture kill" as my favorite.Posted 1 year ago # -
"@Modulate,
I don't know exact numbers (and maybe I'm wrong) but I think Covenant and Combi probably only do around 200 max in the U.S. (and that's in cities with a more active scene). VNV at their prime I think maybe were doing more like 500, I bet now they're down to 200 or so. Am I wrong? I don't work for a club or anything but I can just estimate from what I've seen firsthand."Yes, you are completely wrong. :)
We toured with Combichrist in the U.S, I know the audience figures. On that tour in LA iirc there were nearly 1300 at the show in the Avalon. Tampa, Dallas, Miami, Phoenix, LA, Seattle, Chicago, Detroit, NYC, Philly, Atlanta, all very very big shows. Even a typically small show would have 300-500. On the rare occasion less, but sometimes you'll play a small show in the middle of nowhere instead of wasting a day without any income on the way to a big show.
Anyway...this is going OT.
@ Sumez - glad you like the remix. :)
What was the other mix you thought was better btw?
Posted 1 year ago # -
azrael2393
offlineMemberAlso confirming what Geoff said right above.
I toured with VNV Nation in 2007, and the numbers they were pulling back them were insane: the biggest show was the Wiltern in LA in front of over 2000 people.They might have been going down a bit now, but I do believe they still command very high numbers per show.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Rogue Process
offlineMember@ DE_TOT_COR - I see your point, but in order to get any decent sound out of an electric guitar, you need to run it through an amplifier and possibly a set of effects pedals, whereby you have absolutely tons of options as to the tone of the sound. Indeed, on most professional guitar-based albums, there's far more work goes into getting a good guitar tone than on the vast majority of industrial albums in terms of synthesizer work. Apart from selecting from a huge variety of amps, cabinets, pickups, distortion methods, pedals, etc, usually there is a lot of studio-only stuff, such as re-amping, EQing and layering of multiple guitar tracks. Almost any guitarist worth their salt could spend aaages talking about their ridiculously complex amp setup and a whole bunch of crazy shit they do in order to get their tones.
Not to say there's anything wrong with just plugging your guitar into an amp and rocking the fuck out. Of course there isn't. Likewise, there's nothing wrong with just firing up z3ta or Vanguard and rocking the fuck out on those.
It's more that when it comes to releasing that all-important album, what should be your DEFINING MASTERPIECE, what you've supposedly poured your heart, soul and quite possibly your blood as a sacrifice to the Blood God, and you've just stuck to the same overused ReFX presets, instead of spending a few extra weeks tweaking the hell out of those sounds, that can come off as really lazy.
Sure, there's been many times when I've listened to a song and I've heard presets from just about every synth under the sun used very well in a way that compliments the rest of the track, and that's awesome, but for every one of those, I've heard like four full fucking albums of lazy, uninspired shit that's incredibly poorly written and produced, and consists of nothing but (what is usually) ReFX Vanguard and Nexus presets, and makes me really wonder how the guy behind it got any sort of label attention.Not to knock Johan though - the new SC album sounds incredibly solid, so if there are presets, they do work extremely well.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Sewn
offlineMember@ DE_TOT_COR
I agree 100 percent. I used to be more into guitar based music and when I played in bands in the past I was never trying to create a new original tone just really really good songs. This means to me constructing good riffs/melodies/phrases whatever you want to call them into full blown songs with intros, verses, chorus and bridges. There is something wonderful to me about just picking up an instrument and putting it on your lap and fucking around until a really catchy riff comes out and then you build on the rest of the song from that. The completely "original" instrument sound is really only a big deal with people who make electronic music. Alot of people say this is the beauty of electronic music that you more or less can make your own synthetic instruments. The only problem I have with that is it stops me from jumping in when I am inspired to write. I now have to spend my creative inspiration making new sounds to write those riffs with. On top of that my sounds are never as good as the presets because as Suicide Commando brought up not all of us are sound wizards. I think this music would benefit more from trying to come up with more original vocals and unique song structures than original synthesizer patches. The copy cat vocal thing is the most stale aspect of electro. In this music we either have depeche mode style, funkervogt style, wumpscut style or terror ebm. It sounds like the same couple of singers. The most original sounding albums I have heard over the last couple of years have probaly been Blaqk Audio and probaly combichrist. This is because the vocals aren't stale.
@Rogue Process
I also agree with you about the studio guitar tone verses the live tone except for one thing. Yes its true in the studio a guitarist might use multiple tracks, various amps, effects and guitars to build there tone but it usually still sounds like a guitar. The sound is usually one of three things distorted, somewhat overdriven, and acoustic/clean. This is the equal to taking lets say the beast patch from vanguard and I decide heck this time I'm going to play this sound with heavy distortion and do powerchords with it. Then next time I'm going to take the beast patch and play it clean with some delay and do an F major chord.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Rogue Process
offlineMember@ Sewn - Well, yeah, I'm certainly not saying that everything always has to sound radically different. Good songwriting, lyrics and all the other things that factor into making a song are just as, if not more important in my opinion.
But I'd certainly disagree that the guitar only has a limited range of sounds. Compare, say, ambient music like Hammock, to Metallica, to old-school 'wasp-in-a-can' black metal like Immortal, to old surf and blues bands. That's a huge range of different electric guitar sounds right there.
Regarding the whole 'The Beast' patch thing you say though, if you're putting some distortion on it, then essentially you're changing the sound, or at least giving the sound consideration which is all well and good IMO.
For me at least, it's not so much about not using something because it sounds like something else, it's more just a matter of artistic integrity. If something sounds good, there's no reason not to use it, but a lot of the time it seems that people are just a bit too willing to stick to the very 'safe' options i.e., 'well I know Nexus sounds good, so I'll just use it on everything', instead of bothering to be somewhat adventurous.
To use another silly analogy, for me it's a bit like cooking a meal - you could either go out and buy a ready-meal and chuck it in the microwave. If you get a good one, it's tasty and filling. Or, you could buy all the necessary ingredients, and prepare and cook it yourself, and while there's a bit of a higher risk of something going wrong, the results may well be nicer, and there's a great deal more pride involved in preparing it :P
Posted 1 year ago # -
soillodge
offlineTech ModeratorGood points Rogue. I could not have said it better.
`michael
Posted 1 year ago # -
Eric Christian
offlineMemberCombichrist used the factory Virus TI patch ROM-B 111 Torus in "I Want Your Blood"... oh wait, Andy programmed a whole bank for Access... lol...
Posted 1 year ago # -
ROM-B 111 in the Virus TI isn't Torus, the only preset called Torus doesn't sound anything like "I Want Your Blood" and while I know Seb Komor programmed some patches for the Virus (Xenomorph productions...his patches have the suffix XM) I didn't know Andy had?
Watcha talkin' 'bout Willis?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Sumez
offlineHuge member@Modulate
The Faderhead one. I don't like the original at all, but the remix is nice stuff.Posted 1 year ago # -
Sumez
offlineHuge memberHonestly i don't mind presets either. They are getting a lot of hate, but there are obviously a lot of really good ones out there, and I never minded Virus presets on my industrial/ebm albums, but Vanguard has some preset gates and arpegiators that pretty much does all the work for you.
What I like about SC, including this album is that Johan has his own personal sound that even the "Suicide Commando clones" haven't ever been able to mimmick (although the first Tactical Sekt album came close), and it's not the sounds and presets that defines his sound (unlike certain other bands in the scene *cough*). Presets is a problem when it's the preset that defines the track and makes it good. With the new SC album I think it would actually be better off without some of them. But like I said, I still like it a lot.Posted 1 year ago # -
Eric Christian
offlineMember@ Modulate ROM-B 111 in the Virus TI isn't Torus, the only preset called Torus doesn't sound anything like "I Want Your Blood" and while I know Seb Komor programmed some patches for the Virus (Xenomorph productions...his patches have the suffix XM) I didn't know Andy had?
Watcha talkin' 'bout Willis?
lol, Arnold... Thats strange, you know the sound at the very beginning of "I want your Blood"? Its kinda goes "wah wah waaaah wah wah, wah wah waaaah wah wah" well, in my TI it sounds exactly like ROM-B 111. I mean exactly too. I got in July and its currently updated. btw, I see you over at the forums, I'm Zylfrax791 there.
Anyway, you go to the user area and click on free patches and somewhere around the 5th or 6th page there is an Icon of Coil patch bank you can download. While I'll admit it doesn't specifically mention Andy by name I'm pretty sure he did all the programming for IOC right?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Sewn
offlineMember@Sumez
Yea I agree the gated patches and preset sequences arelame because they write the melody and rhythm for you. Its like a synthesized acid loop that you can use before its recorded :)
Posted 1 year ago # -
suicide commando
offlineMember@Sumez ... I totally agree with you and even though I use some presets myself, presets indeed shouldn't define the track, so I really try to avoid that. If you listen to my new album you for sure will recognize some Vanguard or Zeta+ sounds, but each of them is never the lead sequence.
Indeed the first Tactical sekt album came close to my sound, as it was me who teached Anthony some of the tricks when he was still doing Aslan Faction. And must admit, he was a very good student and I even think he has more writing talent than I have ... just too bad he isn't really focussing anymore on Tactical sekt.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Rogue Process
offlineMemberBeing a Dad is sure to be a big fucking undertaking. At least he's got his priorities straight, even if it means we're not going to hear another Tactical Sekt release for a while :)
Posted 1 year ago # -
suicide commando
offlineMemberWell, just became a dad myself a couple of months ago, so I now know how time demanding it is !
Posted 1 year ago # -
Rogue Process
offlineMemberFor sure. Congrats!
Posted 1 year ago #
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