Electro, gothic, noise, darkwave from the Side-Line
ilion conflict
offlineMember
I've been working on my project for about ten years. I really need the bass to shine through. Any compression ratio advise?
I know people tend to overuse it, but what is an alternate way to REALLY bring the synth-bass out in the mix other than compression?
Bring down the levels of all your other tracks.
kAlte fArben
offlineMember
try to layer your bass sound with a short attacked fm- or subtractive synthesis-sound with some 'sharp' resonance. or some filtered white or pink noise. it's important to ajust their adsr envelope, should be really short and with nearly no sustain. even a very short closed hihat (maybe something from an analogue drumbox) could help out.
put a highpass filter on that layered sound and smoothly add its level to your main bass. if needed, add some distortion on that sound, too. that should help you to get more attention to the main-bass, even if it is a dull and/or fat analogue sound. due to the filtering, there's no deep rumbling energy that could destroy your mix in the low ends.
if you're into sidechaining of a compressor, you'd be able to feed the compressor with that sound in order to compress the fat one... there are many possibilities.
last possibility: record a groovy bassline and let old school finally die.
just kidding... ;)
Eric Christian
offlineMember
@hollowman
Bring down the levels of all your other tracks.
word...
soillodge
offlineTech Moderator
Good tips Ingo!
Guys- lowing your levels does not always work. Because you may have frequencies that are fighting with each other. Lowering levels makes it less apparent, but it does not solve the problem.
my 2 cents :P Don't let your other instruments interfere with your bassline if that is your focus. Old school EBM was minimal. That is why the bassline is so present. Build your track with just bassline and drums and make sure the drums do not interfere either. Change the frequency on your kick if it is a problem. Or use the side chain method if you are lazy or want that pulsing dance music sound. Real old school though, they had limited equipment and had to find a way to make it work together. So you want to choose sounds and EQ your mix so the instruments do not fight for the same space. Think of it like cooking. You add too many spices, you ruin the base flavour of the meal. You always have to focus your sound emphasis the bassline and the drums.
Ilion, if you have a demo for example we would like to hear it. Put it in the "Bring The Noise" thread and we will help you with more specific tips. Cheers!
`michael
Now bring each of your other tracks back up one by one until you identify the problem with your mix. Next, do it again.
This is called mixing. I do it and it works for me.
::So you want to choose sounds and EQ your mix so the instruments do not fight for the same space.::
this!
get your other sounds out of the basslines way. just because a track sounds fantastic soloed does not mean that it is going to come thru in the mix. when the tracks step on each others toes you get mud. shave down the non essential frequencies a bit & things will start to punch thru. try to keep yer tracks from fighting over the same territory, if a lead or string is dropping into bass territory, maybe bump it up an octave or make the bass pattern less intrusive for that part.
soillodge
offlineTech Moderator
"This is called mixing. I do it and it works for me."
lol..yes I agree with you, but levels do not always solve the problem. That is why I wanted Ilion to post his material. It could be an issue of panning sounds, it could be a situation where 2 or more sounds are interfering and cancelling the bassline out. He may be able to cut out some notes and then use delay to make up the space, then have a frequency cut on the delay.
Again I agree with you, but I know you know that talking about fucking with the levels oversimplifies the situation and may not be helpful to all people. :P
`michael
Keeping things simple is usually the best route but if you want to be complicated lets try this instead....
If you can't get the bass right in the mix then go to your source and fix it. Yes, actually edit your synthesizer patches to make them fit your material.
Still don't like the bass and still don't want to compress then apply phase shifting. Copy the track for your entire mix twice (mute original). Apply a filter to each copied track. On one track set the filter to hi-pass and for the other track set the filter to lo-pass. Adjust the cutoff frequencies of both filters so you have a crossover with some overlap in the middle. You will have to figure out the best frequency to be your split point. Use a 6dB/Oct non-resonant filter to be safe.
Once you have the filters adjusted properly and the levels set right playing back the two filtered tracks of the mix should sound identical to the original. Now take the copied track with the hi-pass filter and drag it back a few samples in time. Compare to original mix track. You should have better bass and punch now from the filtered mix tracks.
After making music for 10 years you should not be having much trouble understanding this concept. Give it a shot and let us know if it works for you.
i haven't ever side chained anything.. the times were people suggested it, i was able to get the results i wanted with mixing, going back to the patch and changing it a bit or layering and lastly EQing because i'm still really new to EQing
i think i have a propensity to dislike things that appear like gimmiks to me.. like most of the need and technique of sidechaining has really started to seem more like a gimmik to me
but i started thinking... maybe this sidechaining thing is more technique and has more applications that for kicks and bass
do people ever side chain something rythmic but more dynamic than a kick.. like hi hats and using the hats to trigger compression on vocals or something? can side chaining be used creatively like an effect instead of a mixing/mastering technique?
oh.. and if my post is hi jacking this tread. delete it please, Michael
reading it now... stopped to say
fucking kickass links. enjoying the way it is written too, great info
here's another great link:
http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html
while it tends to foucus on heavy guitar music, i find most of the theory discussed applies to any heavy/distorted/percussive driven sound. especially as it pertains to frequency & the realtionships between sounds.
@Tsarik glad you like it.
@metaball nice link man!
Frankly, I am quite skeptical about the idea of overusing compression in hard electronic music. It is like the Easter Bunny to me.
soillodge
offlineTech Moderator
@Josh- yeah there are many different things you can do with side-chain compressing FX without using the kick or the bassline. I like to use it for pulsing noise ambiance in the background. I have heard it used as a gate for pads. You can use it with crash symbols to fade out the thickness of your mix and make a very dirty and abrupt stop. There are all kinds of applications besides what they use it for in dance music.
`michael
Tsarik : There's also a Side Chained Gate Effect which can be very cool as well. If you set it right you can 1 instrument to sound off only when it's triggering track is loud enough. You can find some decent examples of this on youtube as always.
@hollowman: for more of "slipperman's distorted guitards from hell' the madness continues @ http://thewombforums.com/
he went from text posts to recording himself ranting w/ sound clips & it's very informative & hysterical. then there's him & some other "pro's" discussing more industry related topics on the mixerman radio show (also at The Womb). it's the best internet radio for audio geeks ever.
holy shit this one is awesome, funny & appropriate:
Imagine yer 2 buss is a telephone booth.
Imagine yer mix is a bus stop full of loomers from a local college cheering section.
You might have....:
Some fat guys, some skinny guys, some chicks with big asses, some dudes who play rugby, a coupla jockeys, an occasional basketball player. Ya might even have baby Mastodons(Hey! He might be the mascot!!!) Etc.
Yer mission, should you be stupid or crazy enough to accept it, is to jam all these characters into the telephone booth in a fashion where.....
1.) The smartest and most important guys can reach the handset.
2.) You can close the door and the booth is still primarily intact.
3.) As few people as possible die in the process.
Now these might not be THE ONLY objectives you'd be concerned with in any given mix... But these would be the ones you'd ALWAYS be dealing with.
Fer instance: You might ALSO decide you wanted to be able to:
1.) Take a photo of the whole shebang where the chick with the great face and stunning lungs is jammed up against the front glass looking like she's getting rogered by the drum major.
2.) 3 different guys alternate placing and answering the phone whilst the mastodon whips up a enchanting cheese fondue and screens unreleased Fellini films on a stolen eggplant/camcorder.
3.) You keep as much of the original clothing and body shape/mass of the landscaped Gospel choir intact whilst shrinking the rest of the occupants down to personal voodoo doll size and set them to work powering the South Bayonne Elks Lodge on tiny Velcro hamster wheels.
All common scenarios.
See it every day.
OK.
Be right back.
Duty beckons.
SM.
so i have this doctors bag... and am going on vacation.. or.. a staycation... how fucking quaint
anyway.. in this bag is my attempt at a H.S.Thompson survival kit
this kit has a sudden need for some metaball(MEATBALL) in it
either way... i'm going all Dr. Gonzo this weekend
soillodge
offlineTech Moderator
Make sure you have 100% pure adrenochrome ;)
`michael
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