wow...this is a bit stale. ok, hexfix, i get it. it is very important for you to have midi timing with utmost precision, and it is ok. now what should we do? forget vst-s? forget daws past cubase 0.05? i personally love gear far more than i love plug-ins, but they can give you a somewhat cheap introduction to electronic music. if i didn't have them, i would not be able to afford much gear, so what to do in that case? if i can't afford 8080, minimoog, ms-20 or some other "premium" synth should i stop making music? i finally afforded myself a virus b, after years of lusting for it, almost everything i made prior to that was on either a softsynth, mirage or microkorg, so what? that is supposed to be shit because i didn't have a proper analog synth/daw/tape machine/effects/echo chamber???? fuck that. on one hand you've got industrialites who make bland virus preset ebm with pretentious lyrics and 4/4 no groove beat, on the other you have analog gear collectors who fetishize their equipment to death, and on some other side you've got people that create their music because they like playing MUSIC and not to make extensive photoshoots in cyberdog attire or masturbate over their minimoogs or fairlights.
on the other hand, im on the boat with rogue process and soilodge, what about the alchemy? should i buy hartmann neuron just so some elitist somewhere would thing that my sound is truly full or whatever? you said you were an atari hacker? great! i like to dabble in max/msp, in it i have created numerous sequencers (step sequencers, probability based ones, etc.) and many other things, and where is the hardware equivalent to that? even if there is, what is it's cost? i think miniscule midi timing error is a small price to pay for what you gain with new technology.
i am very sorry, and i really like your music, but right now you act like a spoiled child, or even worse: a white middle aged blues guitarist who spends all his time/energy/money on his gear fetish to produce a sound that someone 60 years ago did using a bucket and a cigar box guitar, and who thinks only his fender amp, built pre 1965 with 1000$ NOS tubes is the ONE and ONLY way to make blues, just because blind billy "wild dog shiv" harris used it when playing some record on whogivesafuck records.
fuck midi timing, ok if it is that important to you, go with it, have a blast, you've got albums to back you, but don't go on some holy crusade and then complain why nobody listens to your rants. i do like your gear reviews but i don't think everyone will go back to atari just because of midi timing(unless it starts of as a fad as the 303 did), and stop taking it so bloody angrily.
Industrial Music forum » Music tech forum
My Cubase and ASq10 reviews on old PC and atari!
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Posted 2 years ago #
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[+] Embed the video Get the Video Plugins Posted 2 years ago # -
Posted 2 years ago #
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soillodge
offlineTech ModeratorSee? You guys are innovative. Who needs image tags back :P
`michael
Posted 2 years ago # -
Rogue Process
offlineMember@ Hexfix - I totally respect your opinion, hpwever, your way of putting it across and responding with nothing but petulance and reiteration just plain fucking sucks.
Your tests are not exhaustive, and unless they truly are, you are going to have people debating it.Posted 2 years ago # -
I have been doing this for 10 years trying to find the best midi set up.
Rogue, i don't care if you like my brash bed side manner.
I have poor diplomatic communications skills, because i would rather punch someone in the face than explain it.
I think this is where my rage comes from, when people don't understand you, or think you are a lunatic, all I want to do is spit on people when they look down on me like this.
I never ever said to stop using daws or plug ins. I just don't like them. If you want good timing for external gear, old seqs work.
More than anything, i am getting back to the past, because everything seemed to sound so much better then. I found gold on midi timing, and people fucking choke on it because it might make them have to spend money, or worse, put up with bad timing on external gear and midi recording errors.
After having good midi, then having it taken away from you since 1997, this will drive anyone mad. Well, anyone who can tell. Most people cannot, and then sit there and scratch their head on why their shit doesn't sound as good as the old stuff. Well it's a lot of things, and midi timing on hardware is a big part of it.
Liten to how tight Caustic Grip from FLA is, That is artari ST Notator with Unitors.
Listen to Old KMFDM, I think they used old ataris as well.
Listen to Ministry. Old seqs. Tight. Killer sound. This is when music sounded the best.
Modern computers are more than capable of being tight with midi,The big bloated os's and the do it all app that tries to do to much isn't tight ever.
Here is what i think:
[+] Embed the video Get the Video Plugins Posted 2 years ago # -
My tests, you test it, with hardware, on full system loads, and tell me what the timing is.
Then you can say.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I lol'd
Posted 2 years ago # -
Sol: Yes, I agree that midi is slow, and there should be something better, but no one is doing it, so we have to work with what there is for old hardware, and old hardware sounds the best. So. This is my whole point, mine is constructive, and yours is day dreaming for the manufacturers to wake up and come up with a new standard and hold the people who make sequencers accountable, but instead, we get usb audio, usb midi, usb on our hardware now and that is not better than midi at all when it comes to timing.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Rogue Process
offlineMemberWow. Just wow.
Posted 2 years ago # -
soillodge
offlineTech Moderator@Bryan- I agree with you there, that is all I was saying too. Maybe I am daydreaming about the future of electronic music, but I still hear modern stuff that adds on what the old dinosaurs were doing and it is being done with hardware and software. I am just not as jaded anymore about modern industrial, because though it is harder to find a good example, it IS still being done and done well. I felt sorry for you when you said that you have not liked music in a long time. You are missing a lot of good shit. Like Empusae, Acretongue, VOID, Interlace, Architect.. the list goes on. Club music is the face of this scene now, because we let it get that way. But it's far from the heart of the beast.
Of course you are right when you mention that USB is not optimized for MIDI. Firewire too. But we also need to note that it is not necessary for synth manufacturers to get onboard with a change. Look at the Monome scene. Open source, hand designed, most of it is free-ware. It is not hard to start a revolution. It is hard to start a revolution that will accommodate our corporate understanding of the "bottom line". That is what is choking our creativity.
You found a great system to operate effectively with MIDI again. And that is cool. I always look forward to your output. I have bought every album of yours since Neuroblastoma. But I am not that same mind that moving backwards is a way to move forwards. Which is why I always get into debates about this kind of sequencing. I used a hard sequencer for years, I was a hardware fiend. Now I see a huge advantage to software and I can even make the broken parts work for me constructively. You could say an analog synth sounds better than software and I totally agree. But softsynths can sound as good if not better than any of the VA synths. I use hardsynths because of their specific architecture, not because they cannot be emulated as a softsynth. 3 hardsynths that I find invaluable are the Virus B, The MS2k, and the Ensonique VFXsd. Because of their architecture and the tactile interface. But hard pressed I could emulate each one of them in Reaktor. If a person does not like softsynths, that is fine. But saying they are useless and sound terrible is inaccurate.
Anyhow, debate is dead. I am sorry it appears that I am a nobody and I stepped on your toes. Thorn and Ingo can vouch for me not being full of shit.
`michael
Posted 2 years ago # -
WOW, you think an angry pissed off at the world person is going to be this nice guy that everyone likes?
AHAHAHAHAHA I am one of the most abrasive people on this planet.
I hate most people, this is a fact, and i wonder why i even bother talking to most people on this earth.
Some people are cool, but it is very few and far between.
I dont agree that software sounds as good as VA hardware. I have done side by sides with great converters, and they never lived up to hardware. Ever.
Posted 2 years ago # -
soillodge
offlineTech Moderator"AHAHAHAHAHA I am one of the most abrasive people on this planet."
You are not Rush Limbaugh :P
And really you are more of an asshole online than in person.
`michael
Posted 2 years ago # -
being an asshole in person has actual risks though
oh...
and this will win the thread
fuck midi
CV > Midi
now discuss
Posted 2 years ago # -
soillodge
offlineTech ModeratorInterestingly enough that is part of my briefcase noise making idea. I want to get a stand alone analog sequencer that will travel easily and not have to be a big part of a modular set up. I already have noise devices. Now I need a sequencer and drums. I found a couple resources:
http://www.atomolabs.blogspot.com/
Some peeps in Peru that do short runs of very interesting little analog devices. Including a synth/sequencer combo.Also the MFB 64 http://www.analoguehaven.com/mfb/step64/
Then I watch out on http://www.getlofi.com/ because people come up with cool ana sequencers frequently.
Then i'll be looking for an analog drum machine like this:
http://www.mfberlin.de/Produkte/Musikelektronik/Schlagzwerg/Schlagzwerge/schlagzwerge.htmlThe whole idea is difficult because of the size constraints I am putting on everything. I want it all to get into a case like this http://www.skbcases.com/industrial/products/prod-detail.php?d=c5&id=541&s=p
Then I am going to walk into random open mic nights in the city and make noise until I get thrown out. How is that for abrasive?
`michael
Posted 2 years ago # -
@soilodge, if you are not shying away from mfb (many say their gear looks cheap) try these as a sequencer:
http://www.mfberlin.de/Produkte/Module/SEQ-01/seq-01.html
http://www.mfberlin.de/Produkte/Module/SEQ-02/seq-02.html
it is much easier to pack inside a suitcase, and you can easily expand on that setup i thinki am thinking of buying this as a modular starter pack:
http://www.mfberlin.de/Produkte/Module/KRAFTZWERG/kraftzwerg.html
it is named kraftzwerg after all...Posted 2 years ago # -
oh, almost forgot, brian, what you don't, but everybody around you sees, is that you are not that rivethead from the "im so industrial" list, no matter how jerk/hardass you try to present yourself. nobody is that industrial, ok, there are people to try that, but they almost always get stomped before they exit puberty.
go buy yourself a chocolate, put your snuggie on, and you will see, this midi ranting is really not that important, maybe you can make a great song in the time you spend arguing on the internet (and we all know the implication of the last part of this sentence, regarding a certain meme) and that will do you, and possibly many of us, good.Posted 2 years ago # -
soillodge
offlineTech ModeratorThank you dogmeat! I am not shying away from any manufacturer. And honestly the more DIY my system is, the happier I will be. This is not for R010R or even for the benefit of the industrial scene. I will not being taking this idea to any industrial clubs. I strictly want to assault people that are mostly unfamiliar with fucked up noise music.
`michael
Posted 2 years ago # -
praise noise
Posted 2 years ago # -
closetohuman
offlineMemberSaying that older music sounds better is like saying "I love the way food tasted in the 50's, so much better than todays garbage."
This is an OPINION. Proven by the fact that the younger generation prefers the sound of mp3's to records or CD's. All any tests are gonna show is that the sound of analog synths compared to virtual ones is that they are different. There is no such thing as "better" or "worse" in such situations.
Mayo is WAY better than mustard. I did my tests, they are chemically different.
Posted 2 years ago #
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