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My Cubase and ASq10 reviews on old PC and atari!

(83 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by hexfix93
  • Latest reply from Night_Suit

  1. @ Tsarik - Actually, Alchemy has a digital-additive component, but it also is capable of resynthesis, whereby samples are used as the basis of additive partials, spectral-level editing, sample playback, granular synthesis and analogue-modeling.

    I understand and agree that hardware imbues a level of intuitiveness and control that just isn't possible in software. Indeed, I prefer hardware over software for this reason.

    However, I feel that software has definite benefits. I'm currently living at a friend's house, and almost all of my gear is packed away in boxes while I look for a flat. I'm pretty happy that I still have a means of writing music when the urge takes me, and it's because I have a few good softsynths that I can do it. Also, the music I'm writing at the moment uses a lot of sounds that are completely impossible without software, such as various spectral-level and buffer-scrambling effects that have no hardware equivalent.

    I'm not arguing that software is unequivocally better, not by a long shot. I just kind of wish people wouldn't form such black-and-white opinions of things, especially when it comes to really subjective issues like what sounds better...

    EDIT: Or to tether my point more to the original thread, as much as I'd love to have a pimped-out 1040Ste with a Midex to hook up to my JP8000, Sirius and Electribe, as well as a Virus for VA, a V-Synth for some sick granular action, and an SP-555 for sampling, not to mention the gear to record and mix it on; in many situations, including mine, it's completely impractical to have all that when I could get results that are almost but not quite as good using my laptop and a MIDI keyboard with the appropriate software.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. Wasn't talking about you, Bryan!

    Just drawing a conclusion that your findings have led me to.

    There are plenty of industrial "artists" who pirate everything.

    They amount to fucking nothing. And to be honest? There are way more of those types than there should be.

    "It's not going to harm anyone."

    "I'll just buy it when i'm making money from music."

    Those kinds of people need to get over themselves. Main reason hardware is still and always will be the standard is because of fucking tards like this who have this STUPID everything is free mentality.

    I'm mostly hardware based, but I make decent money, so I can afford good FX plugs every once in a while. Software -synths- are something I don't really use at all. Romplers are a different story.

    What can I say. I like real, tactile instruments, and I hate the self entitled attitude that having an internet connection means you don't have to pay for your tools. That's -NOT- fair, and those who do that are stunting the possible growth of this technology by not supporting those who make it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. @Rogue- actually everything you can do with Alchemy, you could do years ago with the Kurzweil K2000 and the VAST architecture. The only real difference is the newer sample library of Alchemy.

    But the UI on the Kurzweil is a bitch and most people never get into the depth of the instrument.

    @Byran- I still do not agree with you. MIDI is a beat up old ass protocol and you are never going to convince me that the problem is the computer interface when every year processors get more and more advanced, are able to push more and more information per nano second while the MIDI protocol still accepts only an average of 1000 commands per second. It does not fit any logical sense excusing it all to bloat and background processes when you can easily streamline your system to be a dedicated DAW and not have to worry about much of anything in the background. Plus MIDI is very lite on the CPU. The theory does not make sense.

    I understand what you are saying about your MIDI stress tests and your conclusion. But I do not think it is for the reasons you came up with. It makes more sense the other way around. That the MIDI protocol pipeline is too slow for the processor that is feeding it tons of information per nanosecond.

    So what I am saying is fine, you found a way to make MIDI work for you, cool. But preaching to people like it is some fantastic revelation is pretentious. And telling people that only hardware is great is inaccurate. Maybe it is the only thing great for you, but I find it's limitations stifling. You can push a VST to do miraculous things with precision timing that just does not translate well to the hardware environment. So both of them have their place, one is not better than the other.

    The only thing we agree on is that Vanguard sounds like shit. :P

    `michael

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. "What can I say. I like real, tactile instruments, and I hate the self entitled attitude that having an internet connection means you don't have to pay for your tools. That's -NOT- fair, and those who do that are stunting the possible growth of this technology by not supporting those who make it."

    I totally agree with you. But my point is that you can make a softsynth tactile with the use of a dedicated controller. You do not need to use the mouse interface, I hate the mouse interface. MIDI learn and a nice controller with tons of buttons, sliders, and knobs is a godsend when you want to get something out of a softsynth in real-time. And I do not prog everything, 90% of my stuff is actually played into the DAW.

    I also agree with you about pirated software. But just like pirated music, it is not going to change. And it is not fair, but either is corporations hacking you for upgrades and bullshit all the time, like Bryan pointed out. Or the fact that we have to be slapped with an inconvenient ass dongle to be a legit user. That is more of the corporations punishing people that want to do the right thing. Fucking unacceptable. So there is always 2 sides to the coin. And my point was that blaming software for all the worlds problems is kinds stupid. What you prefer to use is cool, but don't blame the tools because the idiots using them are inept.

    `michael

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. hexfix93

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    SOL: DO THE FUCKING TESTS!

    MY OLD MIDI WORKS GREAT ON THE ATARI ST, THE ASQ10, old cubase serial midi.

    If you think you know best, where is your proof, show me bands that use a lot of software that make good music.

    Because honestly, i don't like anything made with it. I haven't liked music in a long time.

    I think my opinions hold weight because the past proves it for me, the past music was way better, fatter, warmer, musical, tight, interesting.

    I have proved modern midi jitter over and over.

    And it gets worse as you put a CPU and DISK load on Cubase and Logic. DO THE FUCKING TESTS!

    It is not pretentious, I know what I am talking about. I have studied this, talked to engineers etc.

    If you are content with your set up fine, but don't tell me i am wrong, when my tests that I have done over the last 10 fucking years have proved what I am saying correct.

    Why does an 8 mhz atari st do midi way better than any modern daw?

    Gee its not because of what I say right. It must be something else, yeah, its all midis fault, that it used to work fine on the atari, but now it has tons of jitter on modern daws.

    MIDI IS BROKEN ON MODERN DAWS.

    I AM NOT AN IDIOT. I AM NOT JUST MAKING THIS SHIT UP.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. i did a test

    it proved that 9 out of 10 people enjoy gang rape

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. hexfix93

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    Do not mention LAMEWIRE DAMN IT. NOt in this thread, please.

    Any way, i post this crap to help people. But it seems it falls on def ears.

    I really want music to start sounding better again. because as it is now . IT SUCKS. EBM IS A JOKE. INDUSTRIAL IS A JOKE

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. virul3nt

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    "you can make a softsynth tactile with the use of a dedicated controller"

    Hmmmmm, in theory :) Only some paramaters on some soft-synths on some DAWs can accept CC data. And my thoughts on Automap are already expressed elsewhere :P

    I just don't see why, you can't record everything as audio and then move it around in-the-box. Every time I record one of my outboard synths, I have to edit the waveform and move the first transient onto the beat. It only takes a few seconds and doesn't interrupt the work-flow that much. If I'm recording a bassline and the osc-sync isn't turned on, I also edit each bass-note and put the optimum selection on the beat. For me it's just part & parcle of using outboard synths with a DAW - editing audio after recording. It's beneficial for me as I like to edit things like my analogue basslines within an inch of their lives - the work really starts once it's recorded as audio. Doing things like sidechaining, shaping the volume envelope to balance with the kick-drum, etc etc.
    For the record I don't use any soft-synths anymore (not that I'm vehemently against them, I've just got all my synthesis bases covered with my outboard synths: A6, LP, Snow, NL2, etc).

    BUT - if running a hardware sequencer and hardware synths into an outboard mixer, live, is the best work-method for optimum VAC-goodness, then that's fine.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. hexfix93

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    To be completely honest. I don't even know why i bother to post or care.

    Its a waste of time. I don't think i will be doing gear reviews anymore.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. virul3nt

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    No I like your gear reviews and get what you're saying (I hope). I'm VERY interested in you finding the right solution for your methods and the processes there.
    It just sounds like your method is better for running mixes live.
    But for me it's more about bringing outboard into the DAW and manipulating it freely there.
    Sure, mixing and rendering audio i-t-b isn't ideal. But this is why I've got my eye on summing boxes for the future...
    It's also me shying away from the gearslutz mentality wherein "everything's shit, you need to do it this exact way or you're a laughing stock". FUCK Gearslutz.

    The most important thing is that the music gets written. Like you've said before, when you got frustrated with bad MIDI, you wrote songs on an acoustic guitar and played it live that way. That is hugely respectable. No one making music on a DAW or any other medium should ever feel as though their setup isn't good enough to make albums.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. personally... i post and/or care about shit that interests me. others can take it for whatever they want

    not everyone has to agree with you. don't take their disagreement as a personal insult

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. It's also me shying away from the gearslutz mentality wherein "everything's shit, you need to do it this exact way or you're a laughing stock". FUCK Gearslutz.

    This is funny. I just posted something similar on another board seconds before reading this.

    "V.A.C. fans appreciate every single thing you do, especially the gear reviews.

    FUCK Gearslutz."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. @soilodge

    To be honest your opinion is one of the few on here I respect. I can definitely see both sides of the coin and wouldn't slag someone for doing something like that for something they actually -own-.

    I just kind of like the security I have from iLok and the DSP card based stuff I use. I do use plugs, mostly for mixing, but I do also use Komplete, Nexus(but I often want to sell this), Alchemy, and the spectrasonics stuff. Also the token software synthesizer, as for example I'm a fan of sample based stuff and am using a reasonably priced VST 303(ABL2) until I get the hair up my ass to buy a XoXbox or the like.

    Mixing wise I use a waves bundle I bought some time ago (Diamond, was making much more money back then!), the SSL Duende, Sonalksis plugs, a Soundtoys bundle, and a lot of stuff from PSP Audioware, ESPECIALLY the Vintage Warmer.

    Out of the box it's an onyx with a kurzweil effects unit and a somewhat older lexicon and a roland and (gasp) behringer guitar processor. Synth wise it mostly comes from a virus KB, an Ion, and a DSI Mopho. I'm building a modular and preparing to buy a Waldorf Blofeld as well.

    So i'm not slagging software here, per se, or blaming it. I'm simply ranting about the hypocritical attitude of pirates. Most of the software I listed with a few rare exceptions I can pick up with the remains of a single paycheck. I kind of like buying some of the more secure stuff that uses iLok or DSP, simply because it helps ensure me, the consumer, that some 16 year old downloads for free what I paid for.

    Though I do wish it was less intrusive!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. hexfix93

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    Its not like i want everyone to agree. I find it so pointless.

    I just hate when people don't know shit just start blabbing and arguing and can't back up a word they are saying with any proof.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. I am not babbling. I am not the one that has already resorted to using caps to prove my point. I cited facts and figures in regards to MIDI protocol and a possible other reason for MIDI jitter. I just do not agree with you, fuck the tests, the tests prove there is a problem, not where the problem comes from. This is an idea that has been discussed on various forums for years, this is nothing new. I am still holding up my part of the debate. And you cannot prove to me that the protocol is not the problem. Because in your tests you never change the protocol, only the devices using the protocol. It is the same with SD vs HD video. SD looks better on a TV that supports it, HD looks better on an HD device, mix them up and you have shit.

    I am not harping on your review, it is a great insight. All I am saying is that it is not a cut and dry subject. It is not black and white. There are always variables that alter the theory. If it works for you, fantastic. But it does not work for everybody and it is not the only way to get things done right.

    "I really want music to start sounding better again. because as it is now . IT SUCKS. EBM IS A JOKE. INDUSTRIAL IS A JOKE"

    I agree with you for the most part. It is ridiculous. But I do not blame the tools, I blame the people using the tools and the overall goal of making the DAC list and how inherently inane that system of opinions and assholes is. I have heard great music on just about every kind of hardware and software. Just like I have heard shit made with both. The issue is not the tools, IMO it is the motivation and overall purpose.

    `michael

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. "Hmmmmm, in theory :) Only some paramaters on some soft-synths on some DAWs can accept CC data. And my thoughts on Automap are already expressed elsewhere :P"

    True, and that is why tech forums like this one can be useful if people allow it. All I wanted for the past 2 years was the ability to work with my softsynths in the same manner as I work with my hardsynths. I found that ability with the X-Station and the Block. I can use the X-Station to control Cubase without ever interacting with the mouse or keyboard, and I can change the templates to also work with various softsynths. I do not use many, but I do use them. The great thing I have found with MIDI learn and auto map templates is that they can be saved with each track. So I do not need to reprogram the controller each time. I just need to set the plug to work the parameters I want and save the song. This is a godsend in the Reaktor synths. Where you have multiple oscillators and LFO's, multiple FM operators, and multiple layers of effects that you can wire virtually all together and control with just a USB controller. Hardware just does not have this personalized usability. With hardware you have to find a way to make the architecture work, not make the architecture work for you. That is the value I have found in software plugs.

    `michael

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. @Kryonik- I appreciate you saying that, and I feel the same. I am also with you on the idea of hypocrite pirates. The system is broken, technology is running rampant and the idea of a moral dilemma on either side is so insane, because in different perspectives, both sides are right and both sides are wrong. Coming from cultures that place so much value on what you physically own, putting a price tag on an idea that is comprised of code that basically anyone could come up with given the right circumstanced and mindset-completely defeats the fragile marketing system we have all taken for granted. Which is likely why there is so much outstanding freeware and donationware. You know if NI owned the Dblue Glitch that shit would be 200$ and nearly everyone would have a cracked version. SO one on hand, people should do the right thing and pay for progs they use-on the other hand, there are free open source versions of just about everything, so what exactly are you paying for? Development? Promotions? A high overhead due to a bloated business plan? It is hard to follow the rules when you know the people making them are creating loopholes so that they can break their own rules.

    `michael

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. hexfix93

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    I will say it again. ATARI ST DOES MIDI RIGHT. MODERN DAWS DONT.

    HOW and why, i know, you can make your excuses and blame midi. That is why i think you are wrong.

    Midi is not perfect, no, but it can do fine on atari, but not on a modern DAW.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. The obvious solution would be for a manufacturer to build a computer that has a dedicated bus entirely for MIDI that uses nothing else. Perhaps it could also have some bitchin included converters. Also on it's own bus.

    Have a high headroom processor for dsp stuff, and whatnot. I think that people would buy that.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. hexfix93

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    It would be great, the problem is this. midi clock and audio clock cannot sync, and will not.

    It will never be perfect if you sync.

    You have to use separate clocks, and clocks don't sync, the math for midi and audio are very different, i read an explanation of this years ago.

    At one point I wanted to go into business and make something like this, then i looked into it, and this is also why i know why what i say is correct.

    Most os's are written with sloppy code and apis, and they are bloated memory hogs, don't do thing efficiently, and rely on the horse power to function.

    The old atari ST os was very efficient, it had dma access to the midi ports. This is why the midi is tight.

    I will say it again, its the big sloppy operating systems, their background services and bus architecture that made serial timing stuff next to impossible to be accurate.

    I used to program the atari ST in assembler. I know how to code in Assembler, I know alot about how operating systems work. I used to be a hacker on the atari ST, i crack wares even, made crack screens. So when someone calls me out of this kind of knowledge, it really pisses me off.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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