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1. 

   Tsarik
   

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   WILL PROBABLY PISS YOU OFF.

   i'm more interested in bi-timbral patches at the moment

   the SEM was first introduced as a synthesizer expander module... and outside of the oberheim polyphonic controller in a four or 8 voice.. you'd probably have to build something yourself to play more than one polyphonicly

   so it seemed logical that by "expander module" they meant to layer it ontop of another mono-synth

   so i've been messing around.. running my XS and SEM outputs into different channels on my mixer.. i've got some really massive sounds.. 4 detuned saw wavs with 1 an octave down which was on the XS.. the SEM just had 2 detuned saws... i had to adjust the master fine tuning on the XS... increasing the pitch about 1/3 of a cent to make both synths sound good together

   the tuning thing was interesting... i'm guessing that maybe there was some phase issues that made it sound like shit... so brightening the xs's sound a little made it meld with the SEMs more

   all the good bi-timbral sounds i've made are fairly simple... different amp/filter envelopes on both synths and maybe different modulation on the filter cutoff... but not much else... it starts to turn into a drone(cool but not what i wanted) or shit... or noisy shit

   i can record some sounds if anyone is interested

   anyone have any opinions on bi-timbral patches that are meant to be played simultaneously? ... not like a percussion sound ontop a sustained sound.. thats too easy

   any knowledge to share in general when using lots of waveforms?

   it seems like with most musically useful sounds.. less is more.

   i guess this is why additive synths use sine waves... the harmonic content of 4 saws is "i'm going to replace my blood with gravy" fat

   Posted 8 months ago #
2. 

   hollowman
   

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   There is much ear-candy to be had from doing this as well as some pitfalls. The phasing (cancellation) issue arises when there is no VCO sync which can cause dramatic shifts in the bass region where one second it is fat and full and the next you have something almost hi-pass filtered sounding and then back again. This is especially true if all sounds in the multi are of the same waveform and no sync.

   The amount of detuning between sources is a big component in the character of sounds like this. And with analog VCOs the detune interval between individual sources will vary with the octave played. This is the reason JH's Living VCOs have that special linear detuning, it allows the detuning interval to remain fairly constant up and down the entire range of tracking. Otherwise the fat juicy monster patch you made may end up weak and anemic just a short way away up the keyboard.

   I find the most interesting multitimbral sounds are composite sounds consisting of waves from completely different synthesis engines. I enjoy layering say a patch from my Polaris with a patch from my CZ-1 and a sample of the Crumar DS-2 from the S6K. Then tweaking the patches in each source to get something unique and interesting as a whole. Add some creative stereo panning and it gets really fun. With my old modular I would take one VCO and drive a Blacet Miniwave with it and run the Sine output from the VCO into a mixer with the output of the Miniwave. The triangle wave from that same VCO would then be used to ring-mod another VCO and the result added to that mix creating some spectacular sounds. Then there were options for independent filtering and modulation routings between those sources that could keep me evolving a single patch all night long.

   The harmonics of different sound sources interact in very complex ways which change dramatically with phase and tuning. To some extent these interactions are also predictable to a certain degree and the mileage you get from manipulating them depends greatly on the flexibility of the sources themselves. Things like sync and the control you have over that sync in the analog realm will give you interesting posibilites with phase modulation and phase distortion. The same applies with the phase or sample start in the digital realm. Strange interactions can be made using frequency domain cross-modulation such as ring and FM. I have a fetish for AM. I feel this is an often overlooked source of weird sidebands and waveshaping potential.

   It isn't always enough to simple layer some sounds together when you are looking for interesting new sounds. Make those various sources interact with each other. Then you get some magic. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the syncing ability between the DSS-1's sample voices. So far I have made some really neat shit but nothing I would use in my music. This is something that every sampler since then should have had built-in but I suppose for making wholesome honest music it wasn't in much demand. Powerfully weird stuff that. And the VZ-1 is another really bizarre player in this arena. So far the stuff I have created with this machine is completely mind-blowing.

   Take those sources and make them fight or have sex with each other, or both at the same time. That is where the true beauty of multi-timbral lies IMO. Just lying together in the same bed is nice for a few minutes but gets boring rather easily.

   Posted 8 months ago #
3. 

   Tsarik
   

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   WILL PROBABLY PISS YOU OFF.

   are there different types of sync?

   my XS and SEM can both hard sync one osc to the other with a switch. but the SEM has sync inputs for both osc on the patch panel... i figured those were just individual inputs for hard syncing each osc and controlling which osc syncs to which

   torn between sound design and killing zombies....

   zombies

   Posted 8 months ago #
4. 

   hollowman
   

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   Yes there is also Soft-Sync (google-fu it).

   And in addition to Soft-Sync we have - Distortion....
   There is an art to distortion in the manner in which it has a color to match every shade the raindow can make. It is a different type of paint for the canvas. It can be smooth as silt with a certain little edge or it can be the blackest black the universe has ever know. Yes there is pastel distortion for those of you who enjoy that kinda thing.

   Distortion is almost of sort of additive synthesis because it adds harmonics to the spectrum that are not harmonically related to the fundamental. But you have no fine controle over the harmonics or their density and decay. That isn't so bad though because we have things known as filters which allow us a measure of control of the anarchic explosion of harmonic color from our dear friend distortion.

   Polyphonic, MultiTimbral Distortion? Yes, lets do that...

   And sync is neat if you have one VCO running at almost radio frequencies with it's pulse output into the sync of another VCO. Then you modulate the pulse-width of the 1st VCO. Mmmmmm Good!

   Posted 8 months ago #
5. 

   metaball
   

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   ::I find the most interesting multitimbral sounds are composite sounds consisting of waves from completely different synthesis engines::

   amen to this. stack them synths & clear everything else in the mix out of it's way.
   some of the most amazing sounds i've stumbled upon over the years have been completely unusable because they take up so much bandwith no other sounds can play in the same sandbox.

   ::Otherwise the fat juicy monster patch you made may end up weak and anemic just a short way away up the keyboard.::

   it's all about those sweet spots.

   ::any knowledge to share in general when using lots of waveforms?::

   ring modulators are an awesome effect for stacking sounds while freeing up bandwith. the results are often unpredictable but make great noise.

   in general i'd try & focus on making everything bounce off each other or pulsing in sync, maybe pitch things an octave or so apart, give each sound it's own space, maybe process tracks you want glued together with a single effect or eq & leave a little room for the sounds to breathe. the goal is to move air & when the mix becomes a dogpile of great patches acting in unison it all gets washed out & they lose their effect.

   collpase the wave function & displace the beat.

   Posted 8 months ago #
6. 

   Tsarik
   

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   WILL PROBABLY PISS YOU OFF.

   http://soundcloud.com/rust-creep/xsxssemsem

   this is the XS and SEM patched in and out of each other. 2 detuned squares leave the SEM post VCA and are sent to the XS's audio input. the XS ring mods the 2 detuned squares with another square set an octave below and the ring mod'd output goes through the XS's filters and amps. the ring mod'd signal is also used to modulate the XS's filter and later used to modulate 2 of the plague bearer's filters. both synth's outputs are mixed equally. the XS seems to dominate with low end freqs... makes sense since its filter cutoff never went as high as the SEM's.

   next stage after i recreate the patch again.. is to modulate the pulse width of the 3 square waves involved and fuck with the ring mod some more to see what new things i can hear... i have some ideas of how i may be able to use the XS's slew limiter for purposes other than glide.

   Posted 8 months ago #

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