Cool- I am looking forward to hearing the differences. All the professionals I have talked to about it said it was negligible with what they are doing. The word clock is really more important when you are syncing audio and video together.
`michael
Industrial Music forum » Music tech forum
digital audio interface
(41 posts)-
soillodge
offlineTech ModeratorPosted 1 year ago # -
if the word clock cable is going from the eclipse to the audio interface and I'm using 75ohm cable do i need to use a terminator?
if so.. do i just connect one end of the cable to a T connected which is then connected to the audio interface and then terminated on the other side of the t connector?
Posted 1 year ago # -
@M4RC, nope no freezing from my unit. I'm not familiar with that issue?
It does have other quirks though.
These are only for PC, Mac OS seems immune to them:
-Minimizing the CueMix window via the minimize button causes the computer to bluescreen
-The Control Centre (for assigning outputs, etc) cannot be opened while a program like Ableton or Cubase is open, so if you want to bypass the Main Outs by sending them to the Headphone Outs, you have to stop all audio, only on PC though...
-The whole MOTU driver situation, being at "Version 1.0", is entirely disconcerting. The drivers are okay, but it's just unnerving seeing your studio at the hands of firmware at "1.0" stage...
-There is indeed the fact that you are investing in a product with the word "Unicorn" in its name...But given all that, it's stable, it's great for live use (I can plug a mic and synths straight in, dial in some EQ, dynamics and verb, and it's good enough), has great converters and even functions in standalone mode.. The RMEs can't even do all that, so I think it's the best around.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Eric Christian
offlineMemberI recently got a NI Guitar Rig Kontrol unit and it works just fine with Windoze 7. Its not just for guitar either its a fully functional audio interface as well.
Posted 1 year ago # -
@Tsarik: the Circle must be always closed..so if you connect directly your WC Out of the Eventide to the WC in of your audio card, you should not need a terminator....if you use T-Adapters you need to assure that all cable ends are terminated...either through plugging them into a WC in device or by terminating them...but as you described it, you imho should be able to simply connect both of them, setting the Eclipse to send Wordclock out and the Audio Interface to receive it.. (on some audio interfaces this is not enabled by default...but dunno yours....)
some words about digital recording....
normally this saves you quite some cabling and hiss and ground/lift problems etc... but also have some cruxes..1) digital clipping: if you overdrive an analog signal, up to a certain point, it will run into the saturation of the analogue circuit elements...meaning this usually results in more overtones, up to complete distortion....but between this, depending on the quality of the gear you have some headroom to play with...this sometimes can even be used as an effect to generate some overtones and "dirten" it up a bit...
in the digital world, there is only 0 and 1...meaning even you are clipping or not...any value over 0Db will result in immediate heavy distortion to white noise....so always ensure your digital signal is not clipping!2) gain levels...this is something a chief recording engineer of a major studio told me once....We honestly never invested too much research if it is fact or fiction but used it since and worked best for us...your gain levels should be as high as possible when recording....but always think about the digital clipping..we were told to first set the output gain on the analogue gear to 0DB (in your case the eclipse) and check the incoming signal volume (depending on the gear this can be up to -15Db or more difference)...now set the analogue's gear to the max gain at which it does not clip...try to get as close as possible to 0 on the audio interface...afaik we were told this has to do with reducing bitdepth at lower volumes..but here I have to admit that I simply fully trusted the guy....
3)wordclock: when going digital, ALWAYS SYNC YOUR CLOCKS!...it is true that 44.1KHz is the same speed on all devices....but the wordclock tells the devices when a new pulse starts...so in a regular setup there is one houseclock which is master and all slaves sync to this one...2 hints here: use 75Ohm cable (satellite cables are 50) and if you start branching your clocking paths with T-Adapters etc make sure that each circle is fully terminated..meaning that each BNC end runs either into a WC IN of a device or is terminated with a terminator...
4)samplerate and bitrate: analogue gear does not know such...the signal is provided as an electric voltage which is only limited by the filters of the circuit elements...digital audio is bits....meaning 0 and 1.....so the voltage needs to be converted....the samplerate tells the A/D Converter how often it should "check" the analogue input for new data...higher samplerates result in more detailled copy of the analogue signal....I'd say for musical stereo projects 48KHz is enough...especially when working with synthesizers....with analogue instruments with complex overtones and stuff I'd recommend if possible 96KHz (most up to date interfaces do support this, but usually this reduces the inputs by 1/2 or so)....the bitrate defines how much bits are used to display a sample....the more bits you use the more reserve you got to increase volume before the sample clips...even though 32bit is the highest which is provided by most DAW even nowadays a lot of top-notch equipment can only handle 24bit....I usually go 24 bit for my Alesis do only support 48KHz at 24Bit...
my recommendation would be 48Khz/24Bit...with this you should be on the safe edge also when you once decide to give your material to an external mix-engineer etc...when you should decide to create surround stuff or analogue orchestral recordings...you could think about 96KHz or higher...but usually you also need equipment in another price class....another hint that may sound stuipdly trivial on first sight is, that in 99% of all DAW ALL AUDIO NEEDS TO HAVE THE SAME SAMPLERATE...older sample-libs usually go with 44.1KHz...so if your project is 48KHz this will result in timing errors and strange sounding...so always check the rates and adjust them if needed (with Audacity,Wavelab etc)
also check that both ends of a line speak the same protocol...if 2 plugs look the same it is not necessarily said that they also use the same protocol....one is the physical layer (for instance fibre optics or cinch) the other is the logical layer how the data is transferred...
to summarize it up....digital signal processing makes things a bit easier when it comes to reduce the amount of cables used, routing etc....but also has some things that can mess up a mix sometimes even more than an analogue one...
oh one last thing about the wc....we used not to have a synced one for several years...it works pretty well...then once a pro engineer told us to sync them....and you certainly do hear a difference...imho the signal gets cleaner...reducing micro-phasing which in some cases did take out the shine of a recording...when you listened to the arrangement over the analogue chain (device-mixer-monitors) it sounded rich and full...then after having it recorded there was like some cotton wool lying over it....after synching this vanished almost completely...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Killer write up, Yade. thank you. a lot of that information took me a few hours to find yesterday and it wasn't written as concisely.
i never read about the gain levels but what you wrote makes sense and sounds familar... i think read something close to what you said in my eventide's manual
i am eager to hear the difference between using the card's converters and the eventides.
setting up shit is my least favorite but recording has been more rewarding and fun than i thought it would.. so i guess its something that has become integral to my sonic exploration... i really did think i just needed some synths and an amp... and that was all i needed for a while... but once i got Reaper and started recording.. it became even more fun
thx again for that post, Yade. I'm sure I'll have to come back and read it again
Posted 1 year ago # -
reaper can see my m-audio delta 1010LT.. can send midi out of it... unable to get reaper to record anything through the s/pdif though and i believe i have most things setup correctly
been reading reaper's, m-audio's and the eclipses manuals... i think everything is set up correctly in the eventide... too frustrate after all these hours though.. gonna take a break and give it a try tomorrow
frustrating... guess i'll try to record through the analog inputs tomorrow if digital is still unsuccessful
Posted 1 year ago # -
did you check that in the M-Audio Settings the SPDIF Input Port is set to COAX not to OPTICAL?
Posted 1 year ago # -
i doesn't have that specific wording... but i think i've set things up correctly.
it is sync properly to the eventide's wordclock
under spdif settings i've set the "mode" to "consumer" (suggested in eventide's manual if using spdif) i guess "pro" mode is better for AES/EBU
"emphasis" is set to "not indicated"
"data type" set to "audio"
"smcs" set to "none"
there aren't a whole lot of options in the M-Audio control panel... clueless as to where i went wrong and everything is plugged in correctly. should i be using something other than 75 ohm coax for the spdif cable?
Posted 1 year ago # -
ehm how did you connect it? via Coax?
when I check the images by google it offers 2 cable whips....one analogue and one digital...
the digital one has, if I see it right, 2 MIDI plugs, 2 BNC Plugs and 2 SPDIF plugs..
the MIDI Plugs are MIDI In and Out I suppose,
the BNC or Coax plugs are for Wordclock...
the SPDIF is a regular Cinch cable which you can buy in any Hi-Fi store...this is the one you need to take..
Posted 1 year ago # -
i guess i'm retarded. its connected through spdif on the digital whip.. i thought that cable innards were the same as coax
these are the exact cables connecting the eclipse to the interface
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380252407824&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:ITPosted 1 year ago # -
hmm....I am not sure if the M-Audio supports these...but it should...
I would try a regular Cinch cable once and connect it...
Posted 1 year ago # -
is this a regular cinch cable?
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F8V235-12-12-Foot-Audio-Cable/dp/B000067RBTwhy does it split? why would it work if the spdif cables i have don't?
Posted 1 year ago # -
well because maybe the cable is broken...coaxial cables are extremely sensitive to friction (one of the reasons why they disappeared from networking technologies)...so for testing a normal cinch would work also...
I mean there are 3 points which can fail..
Output Eclipse
Broken Cable
Input M-Audio..
to test if the Eclipse puts out some signal, check if your Hi-Fi Receiver does not offer a SPDIF input...if so, connect the cable and check if it works..
To test the cable you can either use a special device...or just replace the coax cinch cable with a regular hi-fi one...they need to be male-male...and check that you connect equal colors...red on red, white on white..
to test if the M-Audio gets input check your DVD player or Digital TV box...they usually offer SPDIF outs...connect the cable from the DVD to the M-Audio and see if you get some signal...
oh and last but not least (sorry if this sounds really stupid....) you did connect SPDIF Out of your Eclipse to SPDIF In on the M-Audio....? just to eliminate this as a possible errorsource..
Posted 1 year ago # -
tried multiple cables.. and everything was connected correctly
i will do some tests to ensure the eventide is actually outputting through it's spdif... none of them have to be turned on.. all of its digitial outs output a sum of the analog and digital signals it receives
i think the problem lies in the m-audio card. i've decided to do away with it. i dislike the fact that their last driver update was in 2009.
i'm going to go with an Allen & Heath ZED 14
i appreciate all the expertise and help. thank you, Yade.
Posted 1 year ago # -
soillodge
offlineTech ModeratorAH! "cinch" cables are called RCA in the US. Makes more sense now.
@Tsarik-That is exactly why I did not get the 1010 myself. All those connectors, something is bound to go awry.
Probably a better decision to just opt for a mixer and record via USB. Also that is very cool the channels are individually boarded. That way if one goes, just just have to replace that one, not the entire board. Very convenient, especially for live gigging. I might have to get the ZED-10 myself. Before I was looking at the Alesis Multi-Mix 8. Either is only 300$ and would be perfect for my hardware necessities.
`michael
Posted 1 year ago # -
the allen and heath stuff really impresses me. i'd really like to hear a Toft console... they're fucking beautiful to look at, well if you like real wood... i like wood.
Posted 1 year ago # -
soillodge
offlineTech ModeratorStill a console would be useless for your applications. You have to decode your focus, are you going to make sounds and music, or are you going to have a professional studio to record other peoples sounds and music :P
`michael
Posted 1 year ago # -
both
Posted 1 year ago # -
soillodge
offlineTech ModeratorGood luck with that :P
`michael
Posted 1 year ago #
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