was looking through a sweetwater catalog and saw that some of those nice high end lexicon 2500$ reverbs. I was wondering if there is any point to buying a hardware reverb? I can't imagine myself EVER spending 2k for a single reverb, and I figure anything other than the most high end reverb is basically useless next to software at this point. Any thoughts?
Industrial Music forum » Music tech forum
any point to hardware reverbs?
(37 posts)-
wormsoftheearth
offlineMemberPosted 2 years ago # -
KryonikMessiah23
offlinememberAs an owner of some nice FX units, I find that they have a unique sound that's hard to get out of a lot of software.
That being said? Altiverb is some of the best software i've ever bought and I use it on fucking everything. If I had 2500$ to spend on gear, i'd upgrade monitors or get a synth that'll add something significant to my gear.
Long story short, hardware reverb is nice, but in this day and age, in no way necessary. You can get a nice convolution plug like altiverb or waves IR-1, which are pricey, or even SIR, which is free, or probably best cost option, Voxengo Pristine Space, which is somewhat cheap.
I've got a huge library on impulse responses I use for Pristine Space and Altiverb, many lexicon and Kurzweil. Sounds awesome.
Posted 2 years ago # -
for reverb i'd bet there is enough high quality software available that you wouldn't NEED any hardware.
there are hardware units who's sound hasn't been emulated though.
i've heard really good things about Lexicon's software plugins... i wonder if the plugins can do the over the top lush reverb sound of the pcm 71.
i like having hardware with a dedicated purpose that can be used live or in the studio with minimal worry of problems.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hmm, unless you're spending 10k quid on a Lexicon box o' sex, it's probably just more about getting something with a unique character to add to the sonic palette. I love the reverb on my Andromeda, for example, as it makes the synth really sound like it's from outer space. For most utilitarian purposes though (vocals, snares, et al), software seems like the most logical thing to use (especially with the processing power of modern computers).
If I was going to spend serious money on rack gear, I'd put it towards nice analogue filters and preamps, before a reverb. But that's probably just personal preference..
Posted 2 years ago # -
hm i have two methods for my reverbs, one is using ableton's integrated reverb. the other is micing (is it said micing? mic-ing, mick-ing????) the public toilet at the building where we have a studio.
i know a lot of people who fetishise reverbs, maybe it's because of my shitty speakers, but i don't hear much difference between them unless it is a really bad reverb which eats everything else.Posted 2 years ago # -
i definitely hear a difference and think reverb is integral for percussion, strings and pads.
i've made my own reverb effects with speakers, various vessels (10 gallon water bottles made of glass or plastic mostly) with springs stretched and a mic inside.
i need a real microphone though. haven't wanted to do much that required one yet.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I used to sit a small guitar amp in the bathtub and mic that up. The novelty of that stuff wore off though :)
Posted 2 years ago # -
virulent, what was your setting on the knobs for that reverb-in-the-bathtub? 75% cool water, 67% hot? did you get electrocuted??? :)
one of the great ways for making reverberations is getting a contact mic, taping/gluing it to a somewhat larger tin plate and positioning the speaker into it, and using it as a send effect. it sounds mangly and tinny (no shit!) but if you use it moderately it can have quite nice effectPosted 2 years ago # -
Hardware Reverbs imho sound much more better than 99% of all plugin versions....I think when spending money on a reverb unit you should not save....most cheap Reverbs sound crappy and muffle of the sound imho....
depending on wether you like convolution reverb or not, I would recommend you as Software Altiverb or the Reverb6000 System of TC for the Powercore...
those really produce nice and smooth reverbs which support the sounds that are reverbed and carry them instead of just letting them sound like out of a tin can...
as hardware we use 2 TC M5000X fully expanded and a TC M3000(which we use mostly live)
the M3000 is a nice and not too expensive (if used) alternative to the Lexicons or the M5000......and if you don't believe that you hear any difference....just go to a music store and test, for instance a TC M-One against a M3000....
you will be stunned :-)Posted 2 years ago # -
Ornox
offlineCowardly Doglike anything analogue its about a) subtle flavouring and b) effecting the way you yourself create your music (making you more proactive and think your way around problems instead of just finding the right plugin)
Posted 2 years ago # -
@dogmeat: I'll let you experiment with that! Personally I left the tub empty :P
Posted 2 years ago # -
If you've ever heard a real Lexicon in a studio you would know the answer to that question. ;)
They really do have a unique character when it comes to solid, dense, organic sounding reverb. Cheap or badly programmed reverbs sound metallic. Part of the Lexicon charm is that they not only does lush long reverbs, they have an amazing ambience algorithm that sounds fantastic and effectively works like a depth control when placing instruments in the mix.
Personally I think they have a certain character, much like tape or analogue compressors, that means they are worth having. BUT. You can get a great sound from software reverbs these days, there are some very good algorithmic reverbs out there, Waves Rverb, Breverb etc and impulse reverbs like Waves IR1, Altiverb etc.
If you are mixing on a big hardware console or live, chances are that you are going to want a hardware reverb. If you are mixing in the box, chances are you want a good software reverb. Horses for courses.
Is anything below super high end useless now? No. Some of the more budget Lexicon units were MPX200, MPX400 etc are supposed to have some really nice algorithms. Even things like the old Alesis Midi and Quadraverbs had certain algorithms that stood out...I know The Prodigy and a lot of other dance acts swear by the Quadraverb plate reverb algorithm for that boomy warehouse sound. Sometimes a really crappy reverb is exactly what you are looking for...listen to Benni Benassi.
Posted 2 years ago # -
btw: anyone tried the new PCM96 from Lexicon? they really fell in price and offer TI like the Virus......
Posted 2 years ago # -
KryonikMessiah23
offlinememberI've got a Kurzweil KSP8 and am going to buy a Bricasti M7. Great hardware. Haven't used a PCM96.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Pool Waiter
offlineMemberThanks to this thread, I now own a MX400. I had been looking for a budget like hardware reverb and that fit the bill. Love the fact that compression and de-essing are part of the set-up as it is being used on vocals in a live setting.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@Pool Waiter: De-Essing on a Live setup? with what Type of mic do you perform live ?
Posted 2 years ago # -
the KSP8 is a fucking powerhouse. played with one that had the optional remote.
i don't think i'd be able to justify the purchase of a Bricasti M7 anytime soon.. besides.. if i were going to pull $3,000 USD out of savings it would all go to modular modules
i think the Bricasti m7 and its ilk are for musicians at the top of their game.. once your composition and performance skills are up to par.. then you'd want to ensure that the "space" your music is performed contributes as much to the sound as the instruments and performance do themselves. at least thats my take and the progression I'll follow while satisfying my gear lust.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I was able to listen to a Bricasti recently...and WOW..it sounds awesome...but....in a pro environment the stereo functionality limits it very much....the 960L offers in the standart 8 I/O which is minimally needed if you want to reverb for instance a rockband...other than in electronic music, where listeners don't expect " a band", in rockmusic it is important that all instruments play "in the same room"...normally a recording room offers a neutral or the least possible reverb...this is then re-engineered in the controlroom, by adding the appropriate reverb...here you try to simulate an optimal stage...where all musicians play on....so you need one reverb for all signals...(well unless used as FX instrument)...usually you take the subgroups for this and run them as Sends through the reverb unit....so to achieve this with the bricasti you would need another 3 pieces which then result in ca. the same price as the 960L...plus for the bricasti you need to buy the remote control optionally.....we tested it via MIDI in the music store and could barely use it...I would say without the M10 Remote you are lost...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Pool Waiter
offlineMember@YADE - we use standard dynamic mics. While the "s" isn't typically a problem live, I plan on using it a bit in a studio setting.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Alternative-Electronics
offlineMemberHow important a reverb unit is to you might also depend on the style of music you're making - I know a lot of dark ambient acts use various hardware reverbs though I suppose reverb isnt such a focal element of most EBM tracks.
Anyone here ever used the Space Echo ( http://www.alternative-electronics.com/all-gear/roland-re-201 )? I've heard a lot of buzz about that and a friend of mine picked one up a few months back but I guess I just don't see the appeal of a 35+ year old $500 analog reverb box.
Posted 2 years ago #
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