Cool! Is this going to be new material?

- M4A is no audio format/codec. You mean ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec).
- The sample and bit rates you used for FLAC and ALAC encoding are missing.

- Also some info about the format of the original material are missing.

- Oh, and most people won't hear any difference anyway.

</end of list>

Missing, also, is the most common of compressed-audio formats, the 128kbps CBR Mp3. 192 is pretty decent compared to 128, and is a lot closer to 320 in terms of perceivable artifacts on most material than it is to 128. With the formats presented, I agree with cthulhu69 that most won't really notice a difference... maybe with the 192 file.

I suspect the original format is 24 bit linear, either 96kHz or 44.1kHz, but it very well could be 16bit/44.1 - and in terms of this little experiment, it's best to consider 44.1/16 as the baseline.

Additionally, the two lossless formats are irrelevant to this 'experiment' as they are... lossless. That is, the data after decoding is the same as what went in. Unless, of course, it's encoded from a higher-quality source than the 44.1/16 file. And yes, for that we need info on the source used to make these files.


Others have released material in multiple formats like this before. Calling it an "ultimate statement" is a little bit of hyperbole, no? And now, in 2008? Ummmmm.... this isn't a new topic anymore. And with the exclusion of 128 MP3, "abusive" compression is also a tad overstated.
Besides, we're missing the other kind of "abusive" compression so, so common these days: the over-mashing of masters in the dynamic sense... but that, I suppose, is another topic altogether. Like in threads we've already had here. ;)



Still, pretty interesting. I'll likely grab a copy. :)

may grab it to see if it sounds like re:boot, but wont hold out much hope..

Also, what codecs were used for the encoding? Helpful to know in the event that there is audible difference.

MP3 at 128 can vary wildly depending on the codec used.

NIN should literally get royalties from every Tom, Dick & Harry electro band who are now following his lead within mere weeks after he paved the way (again) and are copying him down to the letter with ideas that they'll undoubtedly start claiming as their own.

Sorry, but this is fuckin ridiculous. And pretty sad.

Up from 192/224 with GOOD encoder (=lame) is ok for me....but 160 and especially 128 SUCKS !

>NIN should literally get royalties from every Tom, Dick & Harry electro band who are now following his lead within mere weeks after he paved the way (again) and are copying him down to the letter with ideas that they'll undoubtedly start claiming as their own."

WORD. You can say what you want about newer NIN releases but Trent IS THE MAN !

I´ll download the tracks later, will be interesting I guess.

"Complete to receive the free 2-track download on June 15th !"

???? :( ? :) :D

cool... i signed up. looking forward to what this will sound like.

as far as the NIN, i totally agree. trent is quite the innovator. but at least other artists are realizing that it will work if you have an established fan base and are going forth in offering things like this.

props to F242 for doing this as well.

Giving away music, yeah that's real innovative. Props to NIN ;)

NIN wasn't the first. He did it well, yes Better than some/most, perhaps. But not the first.



Yes, the LAME encoder is quite good.

Just going to get the FLAC. Looking forward to this. F242 is another band that has never disappointed me. Always innovated and ahead of their time.

`michael

"and thus hear for him/herself what good quality audio sounds like"

Pity it's Front 242 and they suck.

> Pity it's Front 242 and they suck.

That's not true. "Pulse" is a great album.

Btw it's no free download if it forces one to "register". Today personal (customer) information are hard currency, too. Also the registration page doesn't mention any privacy policy at all.

Man, some people sure are picky.

I'm still waiting for 'Headhunter 08' - the 4 box series, featuring the one track mixed by approximate bands :)

"Btw it's no free download if it forces one to "register". Today personal (customer) information are hard currency, too. Also the registration page doesn't mention any privacy policy at all."

Did you see my user-name???

Join the club.

two bloody weeks to wait :/
thank you side-line

Registrations/passwords for everything drives my wife nuts.
I kinda am bugged by having to sign up for things all the time, but I prefer that to having to worry about keeping my private info, er, private.

If there's something "free" that I really feel I don't want to do without, and a little demographic information is what it takes to get it, fine with me. I'll make that choice on a case-by-case basis... Besides, you can always make a hotmail account for crap like that...

Besides, you can always make a hotmail account for crap like that...
true that, lame excuse for not subscirbing

some people are a bit too picky I think

it's only normal they want you to register.. jeez.. put yourself in their place for a minute..

@IH8ToRegister: Yeah having to register at forums in order to discuss stuff with people is a royal pain in the ass. Feh.

@cthulhu69: How is it not free? Did you pay for it? Must've missed that part where I needed to enter my cc #.

Whatever. I use Bugmenot.com all the time for pointless reg-walls but getting free 242 tracks in lossless is good enough for me to give them my location and e-mail.

MAny bands from Leather Strip to VNV Nation have post free tracks so NIN didn't discover the wheel.

Free TRACKS as a taster - many bands had that. Complete free albums from a very known artist, otherwise: NOT MANY if any :) And Trent didn´t gave it away for free, it was very good PROMO for him ! Promo = sales.

I guess I drop that, will hear the tracks somewhere in time anyway and don´t need to register for them. Especially if the chosen formats and bitrates shouldn´t differ *that* much. Except the source file is already bad (mastering,mixing etc.).....only imo of course. I´m no hifi expert at all :(

That means the 192 files should be sound worst of course...

NIN sux.

Now they have saved the "GENRE" too

free/payed whatever

i want sustance!

@ptyl: sustanace? substance? Both! :)


@Goa-head (nice new nick): Yeppers, the 192 will be audibly degraded for some people, on some systems. Still not completely tragic of a format, though. If they were really trying to "make a point" about "damaging" compression, then they need to have it in 128kbps, ripped to MP3 by an older version of MusicMatch Jukebox or something...

my fat fingers slipped the bbbbbbeeeee

As mostly agreed Out Out :)

Well I just wait untill I hear it myself....

It depends also on the musicstyle of course: Noise/Indus won´t be too much damaged from 128/160 MP3, but classical or metal ! Esp. listen to hi hats in metal 128mp3, a big difference to better bitrate...not listenable mostly.

The way I read it, this is OLD material, early F242 unreleased stuff. Side-Line, correct me if I am incorrect..?

However, I have a feeling new material is in the works ;)

Are those new tracks, or their previous work, redone?

"Pity it's Front 242 and they suck."

Are you serious? Do Front By Front and Tyranny For You mean nothing? I see them as a groundbreaking band of their time... not to mention that there are a shitload of bands that wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for their sound.

Also curious what sort of tracks these are. New material would be ace.

Up Evil is one of the best albums of the 90s.

Front 242 is STILL after all these years a band who still keep the art in being artists. I'll listen to Tyranny For You or even Geography of a lof of the new assembly line loop industrial. [oh hey we got a plugin that distorts shit].
Just saying.

Are those new tracks, or their previous work, redone?

Haven't heard of any old Front 242 track called "First moment", but you may correct me if I'm wrong.

"NIN didn't discover the wheel."

How long until NIN have a Gene Simmons like moment and claim that they created Industrial? ;)

Back on topic, I'm looking forward to the '242 tracks. :)

@iSeb: No kidding, eh? "...new assembly line loop industrial..." - well put. (Sorry if a little of my cynicism is showing - I'm pre-caffeine and up far too early.)

Who's talking NIN? It's obviously Alfa-Matrix pulling a Radiohead :)

You mean "pulling a Jane Siberry/Issa"? Perhaps you do. ;)
Or someone else, if someone can trace this idea further back, I'm all ears...

Then the joke would be sorta lost... but apparently it already is :)

Ah.

"However, I have a feeling new material is in the works ;)"

Especially with their completly new website, I'm hoping for the same! And then this release...

Great news! Thank you Side-Line!

Just for the record, Alfa Matrix started giving away free tracks when launching in 2000-2001... :) so that is cleared up as well.

@S-L: I don't think anyone is really arguing about some free tracks - just over how "innovative" the whole "free stuff online" thing is at this point.
If we're gonna talk about free music, heck, I was getting free music in the 80s from labels. Freebies as promotion is as old as the hills...

No offense or anything, I still think it's good to try new spins on stuff, and new F242 material is always of interest. :)

"let listeners judge for themselves what the difference is between various audio formats"

What is Side-Line's motivation for this statement? It is 2008, not 1988 - does Side-Line think that music listeners who compile digital/MP3 version of their library has not already determined what the best audio format for them is? Is Side-Line under some kind of allusion that this is the first time that we are legally allowed to own digital/MP3 versions of F242 tracks?

hurry up & wait.

I don't think you should be offended like that..
Jeez.. It's just a statement they make, aren't they allowed to do so..?
We here at the forums might already know certain things, but a lot of potential others might not..

"let listeners judge for themselves what the difference is between various audio formats"

What is Side-Line's motivation for this statement? It is 2008, not 1988 - does Side-Line think that music listeners who compile digital/MP3 version of their library has not already determined what the best audio format for them is?

it would seem to be a knock on certain bands that only have one format for download.

--

myself, i'm curious to see what 242 has been up to.

yeah, i think we've lost sight of the whole thing here.

Front 242 is releasing 2 free tracks. be happy. not angry, not judgmental (at least not until the tracks are released and heard)

I signed up pretty darn quick, if that stands for anything...:)

what's with all the trent reznor homo love? he's not the first.

It's not about loving Trent Reznor or even respecting him, and it's not about the fact that a few other bands might have made some MP3's available before. It's about how NIN did something pretty 'revolutionary' in terms of releasing 2 albums with absolutely zero advanced promotion, and doing so for free while also fully embracing the digitial medium in more capacities than anyone ever has before. That simply cannot be argued.

Like it or hate it, it doesn't matter, but it's certainly no coincidence that all of these other bands & labels are suddenly now doing the exact same thing mere weeks after Reznor did. Now everyone has it in their head that if NIN can do it, anyone can. And that's what is ridiculous, especially when it comes to these micro-sized scene bands that are lucky to even have people download their stuff, nevermind actually buy it.

Let's also remember (and just admit) that F242 have meant exactly squat since the 90's, as evidenced by the sheer lack of hype they get and the kind of label they're now on. Yeah some people might still like them blah blah blah, but the truth is that they're a sad shadow of their former selves these days, and as such, NOTHING about this blatent copycat move is an "ultimate statement" of anything. The only "ultimate statement" they're sending is that they or their label is trying to pass off someone elses idea as their own - which we clearly know isn't the case at all. I mean, if you're going to copy someone, maybe make it less obvious.

Bottom line is that NO arguement in the world will ever convince me that bands like F242 already had this kind of plan in motion before NIN did it first. I don't expect too many scene kids to agree with me, and even anticipate most of the forum regulars to get up in arms about it, but I nevertheless stand behind my statement 100%.

"I don't expect too many scene kids to agree with me, and even anticipate most of the forum regulars to get up in arms about it, but I nevertheless stand behind my statement 100%."
If you are not open for discussion or if you're not open for other ideas, a discussion forum is not the right place to be..

Don't make such a big deal about it :p.. They aren't stating they are first or sth.. Just let them make their statement, one that is quite valid, not?
And the most important part is that there are new F242 tracks..
And that dates back to 2003 (2004 if you count in some unreleased track)..

If you are not open for discussion or if you're not open for other ideas, a discussion forum is not the right place to be..

If I ever thought this forum actually allowed intelligent discussion as opposed to constant flamewars, Deathkey references and pics of Owen Wilson made to intentionally derail threads, I would be open to it. But that ship sailed years ago.

> Man, some people sure are picky.

Because i notice there are way too many cthulhus around i consider this a nice opportunity to change my displayed nick to something more fitting.

Im just concerned Patrick and crew wont survive the alien onslaught thats about to begin. Does Belgium have plans implemented for an alien invasion thats determined to wipe out the entire earth as we know it?

>If I ever thought this forum actually allowed intelligent discussion as opposed to constant flamewars, Deathkey references and pics of Owen Wilson made to intentionally derail threads, I would be open to it. But that ship sailed years ago.

Mh, well all that and HOINH makes me like this forum :D
Also your maybe right about 242 (shadow etc.), but I won´t judge the whole thing before I heard it... maybe they are still good for a surprise... guess yn speculation NOW is useless, untill we hear the tracks (imo) :)

@Jhiaxis.....you're wrong....NIN is not revolutionary.....it's an illusion because NIN is the center of attention, and anything they do will appear revolutionary, while the little guys go unnoticed....trent reznor probably surfed the web one day and bumped into some smaller bands offering free music in various digital formats.

Jhiaxis sounds bitter and angry with the scene bands and this forum. In the 5 months hes been on the forum, he seems to have nailed the entire culture and forum down.

Now excuse me as I pack up my Trent shrine to FLEE FROM THE ALIEN INVASION THATS LANDING!

@lahloo

I cannot agree more with you, you´re my man!!

@ Seraphim
Don't confuse being bitter & angry with just being realistic and calling it for what it is. If I didn't think the scene still had some good things to offer, I wouldn't be here. And also don't single me out. I've never blindly bashed anyone here or started outright flamewars... unlike many, many, many other more regular users here do on a daily & weekly basis. I at least try to explain my standpoint regardless if people agree with it or not.

@ lahloo and whoever else is too daft to realize that my statements about NIN are anything BUT worship or praise. I don't even like NIN all that much, but there's no denying where he stands in the scene or the ideas he has single handedly brought to the table. This is exactly why I used quotes when I said 'revolutionary'. Don't blame me for calling it for what it is - blame all the bands & labels who you DO respect now following his lead. It just proves this guy is still the main influence people use to copy, just with difference now being in marketing instead of sound & image.

I still think it's a good idea - I only criticized the hyperbole ("ultimate statement" - guys, really? You know I like you all, but this is silly - I can't be anything but honest here) and lack of actual lower quality MP3s which to compare the higher quality formats to. Not that I personally will compare - I've done that far to much already.

At the same time I criticize the NIN-are-the-be-all-end-all-of-innovators attitude (and Radiohead, for that matter) too... equal-opportunity critic, over here. ;)

Was NIN on mp3.com in 1999?

It's like a special present in my email on June 15. How cute. I prolly wouldn't have listened to the new F242 material if it weren't free and on this blog. ty

Oh, by the way, to my knowledge, no one here has yet to ask the question "doesn't he/they (Trent/Radiohead) have a team of creative types around them that might, just might, be contributing to some of these 'innovations' that only the public persona(e) get credit for"?
That is, perhaps these musicians aren't solely responsible for the 'marketing genius' they are credit for. Just a thought.

[edit]

credited

[/edit]

@ Out Out
You're probably right, but it doesn't matter. Everyone knows going into it that NIN is going to get (and take) the credit being that it's his music, so it's probably not even an issue since it comes with the territory of working with/for him. It's really no different - solely for the sake of example - than how Madonna, Britney, etc. all get & take the credit for albums that are put together by someone else, or how a movie director gets all the credit when 9 times out of 10 it's the cinematographers & set designers that ultimately make them look they way they do. There's always someone else behind the scenes, but what matters is how it's executed for public consumption and as a brand. "The sum is greater than all the parts" type of thing.

Or then again, who knows, maybe all of this IS Trent's idea. It's absolutely possible and I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find out it is. He's been Halo stamping his releases from day one, so obviously he has some sense of marketing strategy & collectiblity value.

Gigatronik - Alien Hand Healing :(

@Jhiaxis: Agreed, really. They're the "face" of the brand, so they get the credit for everything, unless they specifically voice otherwise...
And yeah, it could be Trent's brilliance across the board, too. (I personally think he's pretty smart, even if he does say some, er, silly/stupid stuff from time to time...)

I guess my point is that it's sorta irrelevant to say "hey, person x did it first so all others are just copying" and things like that. Ultimately, it's not going to matter... eventually things like "free albums as promotion" will be so non-novel that no one will care.

In the meantime, I, too, am using similar model (free mid-fi, pay-what-you-want high-quality downloads, and CD-with-HQ download options) for my new record. Why? Why not?
Did I do it because Trent did? Yes and no. Because Radiohead did it? Yes and no. Because Jane Siberry did it? Yes and no. And all of the above. And because it seemed time to look into new models of doing things - the same reasons they all did. Does that make me a copycat? If someone says so, I suppose. Who cares, really? Does it make my go at it any less worthwhile? Hell no, I'd say. Does it make me some kind of un-original hanger-on? I suppose some might think so, but I couldn't care less. I could go on and on, but I think I've made my point.



Oh, and nothing personal, to you, or anyone in this thread, BTW. :)

I hear ya, Out Out. And I respect your opinions on the matter. As a more general response, I don't for a second think that no one except NIN can or should do this sort of thing - I just take issue bands/labels hopping onto the bandwagon *this* quickly and trying to pass it off as a more innovative idea than it really is. Obviously no one is going to preface their press releases by saying "Now that NIN...", but at the same time, they sure as hell shouldn't be dropping one-liners like "the ultimate statement" either. Especially in the same scene that NIN is, for better or worse, THE king shit in terms of recognition, popularity, influence, reason people even got into the scene, blah blah blah etc etc etc. It would be an entirely different can of worms if it was scene stars copying someone like Radiohead, for example. At least it wouldn't be *as* blatently obvious.

Add to that, just out of pure principle, I don't like the fact that scene kids can sit here & bash NIN while praising their lower level favorite bands for doing what they don't want to admit: copying NIN down to the letter. Like I said before, all this is doing is proving exactly how much influence "Mr. Sellout" still has over the entire scene... even when it comes to the almighty F242. It's a weird blend of envy vs. jealousy - using NIN as the influence but trying to tear him down in the process.

And again, for anyone that can't make sense of what I'm saying, this is not blind NIN worship. It's simple acknowledgment of what he did and how it's already changing the way this scene is (once again) following suit. Instead of sound & image copying, it's now marketing & promotion. Now all we need is every band under the sun pressing thermal color changing CD's ala "Year Zero", and boom, the circle is complete. :)

I think the important question everyone here is missing is...

Does Front 242 have a different onstage makeup style than Dawn of Ashes?

Anyone know???

This entire thread is amusing in a sad way. People get so riled up about some of the most inane things. There are innovators in everything, but usually the ones that get the recognition for it aren't the ones who did it first. That's usually the way things go. So Trent gave his fans some albums for free - good for us (the fans). So other people are doing it too. Oh nooo! Can someone name one band that has claimed they started this whole trend of offering free mp3s as an album after NIN did? They would have to be on whale tranquilizers to do so. Someone tell me what the harm is offering it anyway? Following someone isn't always a bad thing. My rant.

Front 242 has always kicked ass, and I personally can't wait for the 15th.

@Reznorb: Me too - looking forward to it! New 242 has always piqued my interest!
Am I riled up? Nah.

@Jhiaxis: Understood. The whole "ultimate" phrase stuck in my craw, too, obviously. But, please, don't think (and I actually don't think you do think) that just because some band (i.e. me, perhaps) releases a new record so soon after, say Ghosts (or In Rainbows) with the kind of methods that I am using that I didn't ponder both the timing and the implications of it. Like I said, did I do it because NIN did? Yes and no. The no part is most certainly because I know some people will assume that I am a Trent wannabe and will mimic his every move. Couldn't be further from the truth.

I admire the guy's works for sure, but never in my career have I aspired to be like him. Sure, it must be nice, but I've always known that I am entirely different than, and frankly, incapable of, being him. I cannot write songs like him (nor do I want to - he's got that down already.) Nor do I have the ambition to tour like him (I chose long ago to focus on my studio career instead, quite happily.) Heck, I was mixing my first record when I received an advance copy of PHM from a friend working promo for it. Knew then that his and my paths were different, even, despite apparent (and coincidental) similarities between some of his and some of my early works (from what I've been told over and over, over the years - I really don't see it... Well, I suppose I do in that we use electronics, vocals, guitars, samples, drums, and general rock song structures. Whatever.)

Sure, there may be some bands in this "scene" who will mimic every move he makes, but to assume that all who do similar things, especially "so soon after" he does means it's deliberate, or motivated in jealousy, or bandwagonism (is that a word? it is now!) is almost as, or roughly as, silly as making statements like "ultimate" blah blah blah. (Again, no offence, AM or S-L - but some of that wording is pretty over-the-top..!)

Frankly, I think we basically agree, just wanted to go on record with those thoughts. Again, nothing personal - more just inspired by - and tangentially related to - what you're saying... :)

Answer-NIN was never on MP3.com back in the day. If you recall, Trent was completely against file sharing until recently when it was obvious it was taking over.

I think it is funny to see everyone so reactive to this news. Infinitely indicative of the way this scene works-or doesn't work.

This is exactly the kind of thing F242 would do. Just like when Pulse came out and everyone said it was reinventing EBM-which it did, just not in a way that everyone was comfortable with. At that point in time they would have done better to use their old sound and just call it a reinvention. I am curious to see what direction they have taken now.

Now for the wording, a lot of complaints here from you guys. But how would you have announced this idea? How would you have worded this digital only release and not make it sound like a worthless download?

Here are some new tracks from F242, for free-in different compressed and non-compressed audio formats. Allowing you the listener to decide the worth of such formats. This is perfectly reasonable. The registering is obviously to gauge interest and to get your information so they can spam the hell out of you for future releases. This is all fine and reasonable.

And again we are talking about Trent. I'm not even going to go there again. I pretty much agree with what Mark said about it all.

`michael

I think it is funny to see everyone so reactive to this news.
I thought it was a joke at first. In fact I still think it started like one.
This thread is supposed to be about F242, not free mp3s, ffs...

theoy should put it in 242 kbps. i would totally buy that!
not that its technically feasable, but dont steal my happy!

Only to be played in a Volvo 242

@soillodge: I agree that something had to be said to make it seem more like a cool thing and less like a toss-off. My initial complaints still hold: no "standard" quality MP3 (128kbps) to actually compare to (especially if one of the points is such a comparison for 'the people' to hear differing qualities in various formats), the exclusion of what exactly the lossless formats are lossless from (that was the source?) and that the needless hyperbole (due to careless wording, I now surmise, over deliberate hype) of the press release.

It could have been done with a little less self-congratulatory tone ("ultimate statement" still makes me laugh, sorry) and some actual differences in the files to compare to (the WAV and the two lossless are likely effectively identical, unless the lossless are sourced from something better than 16/44.1, and even 192kbps MP3 isn't total trash) and I think no one would have batted an eye - they just would have said "yay!"

Again, I signed up right away for it, that should say something. ;)

These are free tracks... FREE, GRATIS, GRATUIT... What else do you people want a band to do out of free will????? Jezus... just enjoy the music.

@Side-Line --> yea, who complains about free tracks? there's no pleasing some people...

I agree with Side-Line for once. But I still want that edit button.

> What else do you people want a band to do out of free will????? Jezus...

Erm, maybe put the tracks on an open accessible and legal webpage, together with a copyright license? :)

I can't resist to express again that there is a significant difference between "gratis" and "free". ;)

Yours truly, the picky nitpicker.

@Side-Line: Please, as I've said - I don't want to be misunderstood here - I'm thrilled A.M. and F242 are doing this - I intend to enjoy the music! I've said that right along - I signed up right away.

I just got a little, er, put off by some of the wording (frankly speaking, it was a little patronizing to be informed that they were making some kind of "ultimate statement") and what that wording implied (the "ultimate" comparison of delivery file formats) and what that implication was unable to fulfill (missing information, the lack of the most common compressed file format, etc) that's all. I think I've explained that clearly enough, and hope you're not taking offense from my observations and opinions on the matter. As I'm trying to be only constructive in this criticism, I'd find someone taking offense from it to be surprising, honestly. It was a press release posted on a discussion board - and I'm discussing it. :)

But, to be absolutely clear, I'm not complaining, just pointing out that an 128kbps MP3 to do the comparison seems like an obvious thing, and that the overzealous wording was kinda, well, over-the-top. Like, you know, for further reference, if someone were to do something like this again...

just so you know, he band didn't want us to use the 128kbps because that really sucked way too much. Even at 192 you will be able to tell the difference...

> Even at 192 you will be able to tell the difference...

Would you accept a bet on this? I bet you can't tell the difference on consumer electronics.

can't wait for the tracks!
really want to know what they've been up to!
another evolution from where pulse left or taking it back to the old days..?
who's on vocals and if this is a teaser for a new album or sth like that, would be cool..

12 days to go ;)

One you surf the net
Two you click the link
Three you slowly start the download
And Four you complain about the band!

@Goddamn you suck cos you changed your name again and I don't know who you are- On headphones I can tell the difference in an MP3 ripped at 192 and an MP3 ripped at 320. Out loud on a consumer level stereo system- not so much.

Anyhow- Mark- I understand what your saying. And I'm just parrying with the fact that AM always hypes their releases this way. Everything they do is commenting on reinventing the wheel. You just get used to it as their sales pitch after a while.

I'm just excited to hear new F242 as I signed up immediately, same as you did. Period.

Also note, that perhaps AM is using this opportunity the same as the NIN camp did, to gauge what formats of audio people are going to gravitate towards in the future. In case everyone has not really been keeping track. A lot of labels really dropped the amount of music they released this year compared to the last few years. I think they are all sitting back figuring out how to proceed effectively. Either that or they are shitting themselves :P

`michael

`michael

@soillodge: I guess I just normally don't notice the 'hype' is all...


@Side-Line: The band may have thought the 128 sucked too much (and I basically agree) but it still goes counter to the point of 'educating' the people about "compression abuse" to not include it for comparison. It is, and will be for a while to come, the baseline standard paid download format...

Whatever, as long as you know I'm not "gift-horsing" this - I am psyched to hear it..!

I'll listen to this stuff both on my monitors and my hi-fi and yeah, let you know what I think :)

@ Side-Line: These are free tracks... FREE, GRATIS, GRATUIT... What else do you people want a band to do out of free will?????

Are they new original material or another version of an already released track?

Due to huge demand the 128 version will be added as an extra :)

Who the hell demands 128 kbit?

@Side-Line: Cool. That puts a little more weight behind the whole concept of format comparison! Thanks. Could you also find out what the source sample rate and bit depth for the lossless formats was? That will also help the comparison process.
I'll have to sign up again to get the 128 option now. Better actually do the comparison over here (even though I've done it a squatrillion times already) as to 'put my money where my mouth is'. :)


@Sumez: Me... I guess. (And a couple others, too...) Because I kinda called out the whole 'comparison of formats' thing being a little lacking if it's missing the most commonly used (for better or for worse) format for DD.

@ Out Out : the 128 version will be included in every download mail sent out, so no need to re-register.

@ Sumez wants an edit button : irony... :)

@S-L: Cool. Good idea... thanks for listening! (Tell the band thanks, too, if any of this got back to them.) Cheers.

Seriously? If you buy a download, you get 128kbit mp3?

I've never bought any music for downloads, I imagined you'd usually get high quality formats, like at least 320kbit mp3... Why the hell isn't this the case?
I can understand if you have a small hard disk from the past and want to save space, or are just ripping your CDs for iPod use... but if you PAY for something, wouldn't you want at least decent quality. Like, when you buy actual physical CDs...

Side-line not only there are FREE tracks, there are FREE FRONT tracks, that makes them twice as good!

@ Sumez wants an edit button : you are joking right?? please tell me you are joking....

192kbit vs 320....who cares.

@Sumez: iTunes is 128 AAC (which is a little better, audibly than 128 MP3) - most other places are 128 MP3, with a handful being 192. Seriously.
Scary, huh? That the buying public, at least a lot of them don't know and don't care...

iTunes Plus (or whatever they're calling it) has higher-quaility (320, I believe) but at a slightly higher price (boo.) All of CDBaby's clients (thusly, me) are having their works encoded for the new iTunes stuff. I just wish it wasn't at a higher price - fer chrissakes, $.99 is enough for a song, $9.99 is enough for an album... but nooooooo. To avoid getting into a "downloading" debate I will stop there.

I'm pretty sure when you buy directly from CDBaby, their downloads are 320, though. :) Albums only, though, no "singles". :(

Hey, whatever happened with other 242 back catalogue releases? Like how about a 2xCD of Official Version or Front By Front?

OV is probably one of the best albums ever made by a band period!

or what about a back catalogue of back catalogue?

"a back catalogue of back catalogue?"


WHOA!

15. of June = lovely day :) Cheers F242 !

I just digitized my old cassettes of Front by Front and Never Stop onto one CDR, along with the 88 remix of Body to Body. I sometimes forget how influential their drum-and-sample-heavy sound was back then.

Jhiaxis- this is nothing like trents releases. Its a statement about sound quality. You appear to be missing the point.

@Side-Line
Well sorry for not joking - I really don't know anything about mp3 purchases. I always found the concept entirely ridiculous, I just don't want to participate in the discussions about it on SL. It's the format I use for listening to my music on my computer or iPod so I don't have to change CDs all the time, that's it.


@Seraphin
For some reason Official Version never caught me. I know it's one of their most popular releases, but to me it just sounds like Generic EBM, good but not anything really special compared to several of their earlier and later releases.

Sumez = hater :P

I think there's some sort of serious misunderstanding going on here!

Interesting for comparisons. People will realise they need to download the best version they can. Sure, a good record (vinyl) player will sound better than CD, but only a few times per record, then it starts clicking...

Picky Paranoiac: Oh, and most people won't hear any difference anyway.

sure, they're listening on their pc, that's what it's come down to: lowest common denominator. sometimes they'll hear it in a (mono) club system. Hence mastering with compression and limiting over the top to make it sound, well, louder.

Jhiaxis : NIN should literally get royalties from every Tom, Dick & Harry electro band who are now following his lead

And they'll disappear. NIN can do this as he has the fanbase who'll buy something anyway. And he deserves it, his record company payed up front for the promo, and reaped the benefits for years, alongside him and his (ex)manager, till Mr Rez got shafted along the way. A band starting now can't hope to do similar. The market has changed.

Picky Paranoiac: Btw it's no free download if it forces one to "register". Today personal (customer) information are hard currency, too. Also the registration page doesn't mention any privacy policy at all.

And behold... the angry downloader has spoken. I have to give an e-mail, identity (easily faked) has been stolen. No wait, I'm taking an artist's work, does that count..? nothing is free: downloading costs something, usually electricity, then batteries to listen to it, and time, calories, food...

IH8ToRegister: "and thus hear for him/herself what good quality audio sounds like". Pity it's Front 242 and they suck.

Ah, finally. intelligence to the fore. An argument that holds water. Ignore the philosophy, go for a higher level, I don't like the band, and thereby you ignore the very roots of who helped found the scene that this forum of bickering is all about. Hmm Maybe he's right...

VilleRLZ: Giving away music, yeah that's real innovative. Props to NIN ;)

Good, irony is cool. Hope you didn't mean that, or you've missed the point. Giving away the music is not the point at all. Here it's either: compare the quality and realise you're accepting audio quality that is falling and falling, or it's this: downloading is bad, because you don't get the "real" quality...

the first is honourable, necessary, and (perhaps) too late. The second is ridiculous: people will download better quality version.

Lets see what else you've been saying.

Some bands should stay where they were. Otherwise they became a subject to other people's sneers. ... that have actually happened.
RIP F242 and thanks for what you have done for all of us.

@ Sumez: This was meant sarcastic (hater) :)

And I also have no clue about paid downloads. Who would pay for
MP3 up to 192 anyway? Only deaf ones :) Maybe 320 ok.

This is for real? Paid downloads are 128k? I had no idea, that is awful. Is this like those sno cap players too on Myspace? 128k?
I still buy albums, I would very pissed off if I paid 99cents for a 128k MP3. Maybe 52cents on a good day.

They are still trying to choke hold consumers into buying CDs. No wonder people rebel at it.

`michael

@soillodge: many or most companies currently sell 128kbps MP3. Some are better. And that's the trend we're gonna see - the bitrate will go up. Which, of course leads me to look at the whole thing that happened with CDs where people "had to" re-purchase their LP collection on the new format; how many now will "have to" re-buy everything they bought at 128 at, say 320? Or will some companies lead the way and offer their customers to re-download what they already bought for free or a small fee (one that would correspond to the price difference, say, between iTunes and iTunes Plus, for example)? Or are the corporate interests gonna fuck this one up in the public eye, too, and come off as money-grubbing scum, further fueling the consumer distrust of content providers? Hmmm.....

Or are the corporate interests gonna fuck this one up in the public eye, too, and come off as money-grubbing scum, further fueling the consumer distrust of content providers? Hmmm.....

When it comes to the bigger providers, they'll be like: $-) $-)
The more independent will use the strategies you desribe I think (read: I Hope)

Well the people WHO actually BUY such low qualitiy should IMHO blame themselfes...guess they were not lied upon when they buy this shit quality but they did it on purpose so... well who cares, I don´t buy. Maybe with ok price up to 50cent for 224 or 320...10 songs for 5-6€ that would be ok in my eyes.

@Mark- What do you mean "come off as "? :P This reminds me of that old tale of the scorpion and the frog.

`michael

So...has this leaked yet?

Alpha sez he will only buy things from 50cent :P



REPRAZENT!

`michael

@soillodge: heh heh... okay, so their reputations will take a lateral move... or none at all. Or just get worse. :P

@TimeSpace: damn! :D

sanctioned free music - cool.

batterycage: i totally agree with you!!!

It's the 15th, so what's happening :)

so mine is downloading... anyone got it yet?

Yes and I am sad as sad can be... Live tracks as a base for a quality comparison ? Hm, well...

2 live tracks, one already released on Re:Boot that sounded better IMO.

LAME. Appreciate the gesture guys but that was lame.

And a 'few' mail-adresses more for Alfa Matrix to send ad-mails to.

yeah... FLAC sound crisp, clear, superb...

Anyone learn anything new about digital audio quality?


I say release it on Vinyl! :D

NOT new material!!!!!!!

Waste of time. Not seeding.

Live? Sigh... all that fuss and they're live. :|

Oh well, they're free (I was already on the A-M mailing list, I think) so no harm done, really. :)

I heard those are 2 older live tracks ? Confirmed ? U-men + ?

So see people Goa-head was again right not to register with with AM :)

u-men + im rhythmus bleiben

@ Goa-head

Sound like 1997-1999ish to me...

LOOOOOOL

:D

(no comment)

Both versions haven't been released anywhere before. They are both quite clearly past Re-boot style. Nevertheless a fucking lame campaign and not worth spending your time

Bahhh... i was also hopeing for something more than 2 old songs. I mean why even put a RELEASEDATE etc. for these? ... bahhhh

Well that went over like a fart in church didn't it?

my apple mail spam filter permanently puts all AM mails straight into junk folder
every time I click the "this mail ist NOT spam" option afterwards, but it never helps.
after the download it dawns on me that my mail might be possibly more clever than I am ;)

It seems like it that some don't really read...

Ok I got the tracks alright. i wanted to try the FLAC version but when i try to open the file it says that Windows does not recognize this type of file. Do I need a special media manager to read FLAC files ? I use Itunes.

Use the best player on the net... WinAmp (free version is fine... I use Pro, worth the purchase I think)

Giving the title "first moment" and saying it is a free download in the same context other online releases is kinda misleading.

To say the least.

Regardless of the music content, you have to use a bit torrent program to download the songs with. I realize that most people use this method by now but it just seems like they are promoting p2p filesharing with this. I just find this whole deal a bit odd and am not sure what to make of it.

@ R3pl1kazt47

I agree. While I AM happy to hear free F242, live or not... promoting P2P is not comforting to me.
All those people that never had a P@P application installed now do. And who knows what they will be downloading because of it.
I am sure it was due to the demand of bandwidth was a concern, but still... release the email in phases or something.. or use yousendit. :)

I've had to use a torrent program twice because of a client's insistence on how they deliver files to me. Years ago. And I used it recently to get "The Slip". The thing to remember is if you use a torrent client and do not visit tracker sites like the assholebay, and you're only downloading/seeding authorized files, you're using this technology in a legitimate way. And there's nothing wrong with that, at least.

However, yes, this (and even moreso, Trent's support of the torrent method of distro) now means that many who wouldn't have even bothered with this now have experience in it.

I just cracked myself up: NIN and F242 are gateway drugs to more damaging forms of file "sharing". LOLZ.

NO NEEDLE SHARING!

Some good analogies here. Needles or files, you can still get infected either way depending on the source. From what i hear about Limewire you would have to be an idiot to use it because of all the viruses on there.
Anyways, i'm like the other people here who were excited about hearing some new Front242 songs and was rather disappointed. Although i'm not a father it would have been a nice father's day gift. :-(

and it looks like we will be getting more "moments" on july 4th according to the comments in the file:

'Tune in on www.alfa-matrix.com/shop_comments.php?id=1533_0_8_0_C on July 4th 2008 for further moments."

Even with old tracks, you'd at least hope for remakes, but this is just two live recordings. And they even call it an EP, giving it its own name, that makes no sense.

I can't complain about free tracks, I just think it's an odd thing to hype, definitely didn't deserve a sticky thread.

I doubt F242 will ever release anything new again.

Hell, just the current live versions as studio recordings rather than live recordings, would be a great release. I really want the new version of Modern Angel, for example.

downloaded the files today and.. this is so meh..

free tracks? never complained and i won't start now. Love 242 but still haven't got the chance to see them live so live tracks even if old ones are still OK for my personal consumption.

BUT i have to agree that IF the hype was really about us users checking out differences and relative qualities of various encoding techniques they should have used studio versions of old tracks..
AND i have to agree with the posters above me that untill today i had NEVER used a torrent before (i have other sources for pr0n thank you very much) and so, in a way, yes: F242 are gateway drugs to more damaging forms of file "sharing"


sorry for the unnnecessary use of caplocks..


DEATHKEY

Incredibly disappointed that I got up at 5AM to get these files.

Disappointed in Alfa Matrix and F242.

This was a sort of cheap trick to get interest and really did not prove a point. These are soundboard recordings. They sound weak and "midrange" no matter what format you gather. This was a stupid idea for an experiment IMO.

I have every damn F242 release and I have always been in the school of thought of their amazing song writing and production skills. This experiment was like a slap in the face for me. Offering live tracks as a promotion and for loyal fans is one thing. Offering an experiment of quality with a live soundboard recording and music written in the 80's is ignorance or the band and AM think we are stupid consumers.

For those above that want to know the source of the tracks:
Im Rythmus Bleiben was on Front By Front [1988]
U-Men was on Geography [1983]

Both are great tracks and great albums. Redundant to use them in a audio quality experiment.

`michael

Yeah, still haven't made up my mind whether I'll even start up the torrent app. And if I do, I know I won't "seed", that's 100% for sure.

Again, not complaining about the 'free' aspect here at all, but I feel like I've been led a bit down the garden path on this one. The more I mull it over, the more the taste in my mouth sours.

As soillodge notes, well... I have to agree.

thanks for the feedback....i'm gonna pass on the download now.

what was this?

if this was billed as two free live 242 tracks, i'd of still been interested.

instead i sorta thought that this would be new material, granted the press releases were fairly vague and never promised new stuff, otoh it was never clear that this was "just" 2 older tracks recorded live.

this creates the odd situation where i get something for free and am still dissapointed with it.

if this is going somewhere hopefully it gets there soon...

THIS IS ALL RADIOHEAD'S FAULT!!!

:(

While I would have loved *NEW* material, I'll take free live F242 any day.

How does Side-Line get away with saying that this was all a 'misunderstanding' because someone misrepresented F242's PR? Does Side-Line think that we do not know Alfa-Matrix and Side-Line is the same company? How can Side-Line get confused over it's own PR?

Like I said- it appears they think we are stupid consumers. I am not happy

`michael

Ok let's cool down a bit... there are much worse things happening in the world while we bitch. why don't we just call it a day and let this thread die.

And FTR I had used a Torrent only once before, as instructed by the artist himself and it was 1 year ago.

@ IH8ToRegister : spreading lies is not the best way to communicate with us... And don't blame us for the fact you have misread a news article.

Again, this release is about the sound quality... listen to the WAV, FLAC and compare to the lower quality MP3's.

As far as torrent use, it is not because one uses a browser that he or she should visit kiddie porn either...

Thanks for focussing on the real thing: good sound.

@Side-Line
I guess the point here is that we want new Front 242 tracks badly :-) so make them work hard already...

Mh ? What file or programm do you need to download these tracks ? And I dowloaded NIN "ghosts" also, but I didn´t need some program for it. Since when do you need some kind of program(s) to download ?? *confused* Or did they put this on filesharing networks? *still confused or dumb?*

I for one am a happy man: we got free live F242 tracks..
I guess for some (read: for some) getting things free these days isn't appreciated anymore, or good is never enough..

secondly, a lot of kids don't know about F242 these days,
it's an excellent f242 awareness campaign ;) in my opinion

grtzz

>> listen to the WAV, FLAC and compare to the lower quality MP3's.

For what, this is a clear thing anyway (?)

Use Opera browser, it's got a torrent client. I am not happy with this release, maybe I was expecting new tracks which were not mention. I was dreaming awake I suppose...

Anyway thanks to Alfa Matrix for the free downloads :-D

Just downloaded the free tracks, OHMG this version of UMEN is just awesome!!!! Thx Alfa!

I use Opera since half a year already :)

Well if these are so cool live versions I´ll take a listen, too...

Well, I was very sceptical in the first place because of the technical ignorance/ inconsistency but I haven't expected such a cheap stunt.

Side-Line: how is this an ultimate statement of sound quality when we are getting live tracks? If SL/AM/242 was interested in showcasing the difference in bitrates and sound quality, they could have released music that would actually show the difference.

The business decision to release this on a torrent is dubious as well, as you are spreading the tool that is often used in piracy.

Side-Line sez-"Thanks for focussing on the real thing: good sound."

That is my concern. If you guys think this soundboard recording is an example of good sound. You do not have a clue. How limited this is, how much ambient noise, the levels are set for live performance. You cannot be serious..

Giving out a free live F242 track to introduce the band to new people and thank fans of all time-is a great thing. I have always loved these tracks and having them live IS cool-

But comparing audio qualities with the source being so limited and sonically compressed is completely foolish. You guys have not proved a thing with this experiment..

`michael

"...the tool that is often used in piracy."

A better, more accurate way of putting it would be 'a tool that is principally used for piracy'.

---
Now, before I elaborate on some other thoughts that I've had over the past day or so, I will again reiterate that I am not looking the gift horse (the actual free music) in the mouth here. That part rocks.

But...

You know, S-L could have a point when they say 'people aren't reading' - except that what they are reading is vague at best, so, the point isn't very relevant. Sorry. Just being honest.

Besides, bandwidth isn't so expensive that a two-song download couldn't have been hosted somewhere, really.

Adding the 128kbps version (again, the most common compressed format by a huge margin) only after complaints of its omission, and then calling it 'by popular demand' is also a little insulting, frankly. It should have been included in the first place as an ultimate statement to their ultimate statement.

And an 'ultimate statement' about audio quality using live tracks is kinda half-hearted, and really only going half the distance to making that statement. Sure, one can tell the difference between file formats with almost any source, but to use superlatives like 'ultimate' has now, in the light of day after the 'release' shown itself the hyperbole I said it was before.

Again, just being honest. You all probably hate me now. :(

Why ?

This was a massive success:

http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=32623_0_2_0_C

Note that only NO PROMO is bad promo :(

I gotta remember to occasionally refer to things I do as massive successes, too. ;)

I kid. Maybe.




Of course I wish AM/S-L/242 nothing but the best. I just wish this particular promo was, er, worded a little more clearly.

But yeah, the only bad promo is no promo.

So go here. ;)




Did I just do that? Yep. Shameless. =D

I don't really care if you all hate me or not :P I have bought a shit load of F242 music since day one and am entitled to my opinion as a fan. I'm not going to chill out either. This really pissed me off. I feel like either AM and F242 do not know what the hell they are talking about regarding audio files-which is unbelievable. Or that AM and F242 think people that download files and listen to their music are stupid.

`michael

Like I said. Disingenuous and full of hyperbole. Could have been done far better.
In fear of repeating myself yet again as to how and why, I'll stop here.

In Side-Line/Alfa-Matrix's defense... the way I read it, it was going to be older unreleased material.

Here is a quote from my Jun 1st. post up top:

The way I read it, this is OLD material, early F242 unreleased stuff. Side-Line, correct me if I am incorrect..?

paid downloads aren't 128 kbps, even stupid online stores realized that. last time i bought something online it was 192kbps, which is OK I guess, the cyanotic release sounded quite fine. but of course 256 or VBR would be more suitable for the kind of music i'm interested in ;)

wait- bernard, are you now claiming that you are NOT affiliated with alfa matrix?

'cuz uh... that'd be a pretty big shock to everybody here, and probably most of the artists on the label that invariably rely on side-line to provide publicity and support. also, from a whois query on alfa-matrix.com:

Administrative Contact:
alfa matrix
seba dolimont
(address redacted)
brussels, 1040
BE
Phone: (phone redacted)
Email: info@side-line.com


...call me crazy, but i have this sneaking suspicion that email address goes to somebody at side-line. possibly you. even your wikipedia page, which was clearly written by somebody affiliated with the company, admits the connection.

why are you still denying this relationship? none of us would be bothered by it if you just admitted it and stopped treating us all like idiots. a bunch of us have signed up at the metropolis board, which is quite obviously run by and for metropolis. nobody has an issue with it there. jim and the metro artists use the board to push metro-related news, and give access to others to post their news as well. it's completely fair and everybody's happy.


also, for the bazillionth time, you guys pulled a crazy publicity stunt that was totally unnecessary and makes the band look like assholes to everybody who's paying any attention, and is completely ignored by the public at large. and for the bazillionth time, rather than saying something like "we're sorry if our press release was unclear or misleading", or possibly hiring somebody who's more functionally fluent in english (i know a lot of people here would do it for free!) to at the very least check your releases for accuracy and/or sanity, you persist in berating your customer base and the members of this board for calling you on your mistakes.

oh, and for the bazillionth time, rather than listening to the literally unilateral complaints people have about your methods- i'm referring specifically to the torrent issue here- and doing something about it, you come in here, answer a tiny part of the question with insults, vague threats, and this ridiculous wink-and-nod "oh trust us, we know what we're doing! hint hint!" routine you've been running for years. NOBODY BUYS IT! nobody ever did buy it! almost everybody on this board is involved in this industry to the same extent that you are! you don't know anything that we don't!

for once can you stop being a condescending dick and admit that you did something that might have been unwise?



oh, and i'm not even gonna get in to the unbelievable tackiness of posting a news article stating this was a "massive success." even if that were true on the scale you suggest- which i seriously, seriously doubt- presenting it that way just makes it sound like you're a school aged nerd claiming to have lots of friends.

yeesh.



oh, PS: i do kinda want these tracks, live or no. is anybody willing to rehost the mp3s somewhere that us sane people can actually get to it? i keep all my music on my office computer, which is behind a firewall that kills torrents. given that these are live tracks and that NOBODY CAN ACTUALLY FUCKING HEAR THE DIFFERENCE ANYHOW, ESPECIALLY ON CONSUMER GRADE AUDIO EQUIPMENT, 192kbps is more than satisfactory.

BAZILLIONTH
it was that time indeed


`michael

I am very upset about this, but I am glad that there other people here who have the same feelings as me and are able to express it much better than me.

Oh snap! I just noticed Bernard's attempt to equate piracy with child pornagraphy. I really need to keep count of how many times he attempts that.

soillodge: IT'S BAZILLION O'CLOCK


anyhow that all came out a bit more insane and ranty than i really meant- i'm not THAT angry about this- but my points stand.

IH8- i'm waiting for a comparison between listening to radiohead and international terrorism, myself.

I just rented the ps3 version of Metal Gear Solid 4 ... a patch was available download.

Download options:

Peer to Peer (Recommended)
HTTP


I guess P2P is the way now huh?... :)

@ structurefall : where did that beast come up again?

But do keep on posting.

Actually, the files in total would have exceeded over 200 Giga in bandwidth within the first 2 hours if I got it right. Our servers would have cracked alltogether.

Here's a challenge: everyone who has the files and is not glad will now instantly delete them from their PC, Ipod or whatever you use. Deal ?

@Side-Line: why not answering structruefall's question, instead of going with more bold statements?

I've said it before - (yes, it seems repetition is necessary) I am thrilled in getting some unreleased F242 material. That is not the issue. It's how this was all put forth, hte nature of the disingenuous, condescending, and hyperbole-filled stunt. That part I've already explained (and tried to constructively, honestly, and politely) so I assume that it's already been read.

Sure, if I was unhappy with the files, I'd delete them. (That's not to say I got them through P2P - maybe I didn't. For sure I'm not seeding - sorry, not gonna happen.)

But here's a challenge right back: if someone is unhappy with the files, can they get their email address deleted from the database that they signed up in when they delete their copy of the files?

I, for one, welcome our FLAC overlords

@Out Out: An excellent point about digital media. You can delete them once and for all. On the other hand, it takes a lot of effort to completely dispose of the plastic made CDs, yes, I've tried it, I've tried to burn it, rip it, break it, have the dog eat it, there is always some remnant. Not so with computer files LOL :)

@Side Line: I have found a more fun way to distribute unreleased F242 material. Chop the track into 2-bar pieces. Change the tempo. Give randomized names to these pieces. Put them in a zip archive. Now, the user must reassemble the track, estimating how the track should have been.

@malfunkt: well, it's Side-Line's suggestion that if we're unhappy with this that we can delete the files. To which I replied... well, see above.

But you bring up one of the upsides of digital media - yes, it's more environmentally friendly. Not a lot of fun to 'collect' perhaps, though, but still.

1) I don't respond to silly questions, so those that don't get answered, you know why now :)

2) Everyone can unsub easily, all of you had an unsub link in the mail. Don't complain afterwards though...

3) Sending abusive mails or posting blatant lies will result in ... you know the answer. Freedom of speech yes, but not to tell porkies with the only intend to cause trouble and damage.

Have a nice time all of you. I'm again, really glad with the way some of you behave on here. Bye bye.

1) I don't think I've asked any silly questions. And I've only tried to be constructive and helpful. But I can understand how some are more noticeably, er, ticked off. And I think some other people have asked quite valid questions that are apparently, well, considered silly...

2) Ah. Unsub in email. Didn't see that, sorry, so thanks for answering. Not that I'm personally going to... like I said, happy to have the tracks.


As always, I appreciate the effort - just not the method and action in this case.

@Side-Line: I still think my proposal can be enhanced. Note that I'm trying to improve upon your method. Basically give the users a remix kit that's been shuffled, now the user must reconstruct his favorite band's free stuff. And send a free CD to the first user who has got it right :)

If this doesn't satisfy your promotional needs, I'm sure Seraphin will come up with ever more inventive ways of brain mushing.

i deleted the tracks...

this is a bit of a let down

@ malfunkt : your idea has been noted, just so you know... clever idea though i know the band is not keen on remixes, it could be interesting.

@ out out : your question was not silly indeed :). Btw, got access to beatport, contact me personally if you need more info.

Whether you guys planned it or not (and you probably didn't), it was still bait & switch, and as can be expected it didn't go over very well. But you live you learn.

You cannot unsub from Side-Line's e-mail lists. I was originally one of the top posters of this board (several years ago) but asked to have my account deleted so they would stop spamming me. Well they did delete my account, but I kept getting spam mail from them.

@Side-Line: Cool. Both on the question thing (you know I only want to help) and on the beatport thing. I will email soon.
And malfunkt's idea isn't really a remix thing - more like an audio puzzle to solve..!

@Side-Line: so basically you are suggesting structurefall's questions where "silly"?
Care to explain why?
Also, care to have less fucking attitude?

http://lifehacker.com/390266/torrent2exe-turns-bittorrent-links-into-double+click-downloads

Use that to make the torrent an EXE next time so people do not complain about not having a torrent client.

Yeah, like I'm ever going to download a .exe from a torrent...

On windows the micro torrent client is pretty nifty. On the mac, Transmission rocks. On linux, I don't use torrent but there is always that Java client called Azureus.

@ azrael2393 : bye bye

@ side-line : good riddance. that x** guy has a real attitude problem.

@ IH8ToRegister : don't act so ridiculously, you have a SL account which you use, yet you say you unsubbed??? Yeah right, that's a good one :))

Back on topic, why call the download "First moment" ??? Will there be others ?????? If you have some more of such free tracks ready, I'm a glad taker.

malfunkt: On Linux you can use KTorrent, you need to install some of the KDE libraries first but it works pretty well in most window managers. If you have Wine, µTorrent works well in that too.

wow... impressive.
do you think it will be difficult to make another 1 million accounts, if I need to write here?

or do you still bear a grudge since the days I was basically telling Erica you were ripping her off?


@ewan: LOL... 2 topics, 8 posts. fuck off :)

WHEN WILL THIS OPPRESSION END?!

I don't know what the big deal is.

Those are two of my favorite 242 tracks, would be cooler if there was video to go with that, but I never got to see Catch The Men so maybe it's on there?

Small update: x** has now officially been banned. They get the price for being the first band having achieved that status. Expect some drama on livejournal etc :).

bernard: by those numbers, if everybody had downloaded the FLAC versions (which seems unlikely since a lot of music players won't use them), you would have had over 4,000 downloads in two hours.

if everybody got 320kbps mp3s (and i'm guessing the majority of people chose this option because it's easiest + highest possible fidelity with mp3), you would have had 12,000 downloads in two hours!

somehow i find this difficult to believe.



also, writing off my questions as silly does nothing to address them. did i say something that was a "blatant lie"? did marco? if anybody here is in fact slandering you, then of course i'd expect you to take action, but you haven't even responded to any specific claims saying that they're false!

@ structurefall : it is not because you find it hard to believe that it is not the case... In fact most people went for the WAV files (that is at least the choice they indicated), which also surprised me I must say. I would have thought most would have chosen the pure MP3's.

As for the rest, re-read the mails and answers we gave that should be enough. I have read lots of unfounded, incorrect stuff in this thread, including some of your remarks. Weed through your remarks first before telling us what to do. Thanks.

Side-Line: I've read a lot of stuff that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and what do you know, it's all from your responses O_o

re: WAVs. that's especially surprising because it just takes space for no reason. you offered a lossless format that takes less space. why would anybody have wanted WAVs? unless they were planning on burning the tracks straight to CD and leaving them there, i can't imagine. maybe if every downloader was a DJ, that'd make sense.


i have no doubt that there's incorrect stuff in here- in fact, i wouldn't be surprised if i have in fact said things on this thread that were at least somewhat off-base, but since you refuse to actually tell us what those things are, i am forced to presume that your accusations are baseless.

also, you threw marco off, apparently as a result of his posts on this thread. let's recap:


comment #1:

@Side-Line: why not answering structruefall's question, instead of going with more bold statements?

comment #2:

@Side-Line: so basically you are suggesting structurefall's questions where "silly"?
Care to explain why?
Also, care to have less fucking attitude?

comment #3 (in response to a weird suggestion from somebody else):

Yeah, like I'm ever going to download a .exe from a torrent...


which of these statements was ban-worthy?

I thought Arzt+Pfusch was the first band to be banned on here?

Side-Line Forums: "Agree, Enjoy, Don't Question or be Banned".

I thought Arzt+Pfusch was the first band to be banned on here?

Seriously, who wouldn't want to ban Arzt+Pfusch from anywhere :D


I don't understand why Side-Line continued to ignore all questions about wether this would be old or new tracks, and once everyone found out it was old tracks, he claims people "misread the article" even though it said nothing about wether it would be old tracks. (though it's released as an "ep" with a new name and cover art..)

Or, actually I do understand, but I think I'll rather shut up.

"even though it said nothing about wether it would be old tracks. (though it's released as an "ep" with a new name and cover art..)"

I will admit that their PR was pretty crafty; I was under the assumption that it was new material - so Bernard taking me to task for having poor reading skills is within his bounds; however his smugness towards everyone....

sumez:

re arzt+pfusch: OH SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!

(i like them, but that was still good.)


and i really DON'T understand. had this been presented in an honest manner to begin with, we would have all been happy about it. we could have had a press release like:

"in an effort to showcase the differences between various popular digital audio formats, and take a positive spin on new file distribution technology, alfa matrix and front 242 present the first two in a series of new live recordings of classic tracks, available on 6/15. listeners must provide their email addresses to gain access to these exclusive files, but may opt out of any future communications from the label.

on hand for the release will be american actor and celebrity owen wilson, whose latest success can be attributed to alfa matrix' sister company, side-line magazine. when asked what he thought of the new promotion, wilson reportedly responded simply with "DEATHKEY."

"

I tried both the .wav and FLAC downloads.

So yeah .wav takes some space but is easily read on Itunes, whereas for FLAC I would have had to download another player. I don't see the point of having multiple players for home use and just to accomodate 2 songs in a specific format. So .wav does make sense.

Now another tech question, if I'm on a PC using Itunes as a media player, will the M4A file work ?

djtekslave: why didn't you go for the 320kpbs mp3s though? i'll admit some audible difference between 128kbps (which is the default for a lot of consumer devices) and 192, but are you really telling me that you hear the difference between the 320s and the WAVs?

So you got the wav over the flac because iTunes sucks? Makes sense.

I think one thing could be learned from all of this: Just stick to Winamp!
Now Marco did not die in vain

I run the F242 Rants list (still on yahoogroups, go figure lol) and you'll notice the first response, way way way WAY up top...should have been a warning sign about new/old stuff when Bernard didn't reply.

It's kind of like getting an Xmas toy that you already had. DAMN IT GRANDMA I ALREADY HAD GRIMLOCK, WHY COULDN'T I GET SOUNDWAVE INSTEAD.

The other day was the day
To download; anonymous
But they weren't new songs
You heard them, all along
I was hoping for a song
Something new to sing along
I was hoping for a song
Something new to sing along

One you get the free tracks
Two you start to complain
Three you slowly post to Sideline
And four you get the ban
(You get the ban!)

Im looking for a new song
To torrent it to other men
To torrent it to other men
At ten times worse kbs at least
Im looking for a song
One thats new and real good
One with lyrics I understood
So I can sing along

One you get the free tracks
Two you start to complain
Three you slowly post to Sideline
And four you get the ban!

Get the tracks, start to complain
Post to Sideline and get the ban!

I think that this is a gripe over nothing really. Only in this scene, can people fall out and get tetchy about a free download. I don't know the people involved, but one of the reasons I enjoy this Forum is the diverse views and opinions of the contributors.
I don't know the dude, but banning seems a bit harsh for the x** guy, as he didn't seem to be even a smidgeon abusive in the thread I read.
C'mon folks, shouldn't there be support for each other here? In an age of piracy, dwindling CD sales etc it makes sense for everone to support each other, whether that be different labels supporting each other, distro, or artists from different rosters touring with each other. This shit really isn't worth it over a Front242 FREE release.
Please guys, for the sake of THEE ALMIGHTY PISSBASS! xxx and makeup!
Joe

@ digitalgeist : just wait until july the 4th as announced... i'd be surprised true F242 fans would not be glad as it has been on your wants list on rants for quite a while ...

And unlike what it looks like on this forum, we did receive way more praises for the tracks than complaints via e-mail, but as usual the complainers voice it first on fora. Anyhow, as I said we do pick up suggestions every now and then when there are valid points.

Also, I repeat, the original message did not talk about 'new' material (although I personally feel that these never released before live tracks are an excellent treat for fans), and it was never presented like this either... Again, wait until july 4th and you will understand everything a lot better.

If in the meantime you want to put something down, you got for free and from which you don't even know yet what it was released for, then do so. The band and label can't do good for everyone, so be it.

To those that liked the versions, we'll be back for more on July 4th. See you later.

@ Side-Line: :) Of course they'll be waiting...

So basically on this forum users can get away with flame wars, racism, indiscriminate trolling, shameless self promotions, whatever, murder!

but not with

-questioning Side-Line conduct
-posting oversized hat pictures

oh well, here's another tee-shirt back print coming..

This is like Unter Null's "twins" all over again.

umm did x** really get banned because of posts in this thread? random :(

congratulations to "bloosqr" for placing comment number "242" :p

I want azrael back, we had so much differing opinions, that discussions with him were always funny... let´s do a "save azrael/x**/marco??" foundation.

And: Yes, I guess the "indus music scene/industry" in Europe thinks we´re all stupid sheeple who accept all kinds of garbage. The sad thing is: WE ARE !

--> With a few exceptions though :)

Rioting-the unbeatable high
Adrenalin shoots your nerves to the sky
Everyone knows this town is gonna blow
And it's all gonna blow right now:.

Now you can smash all the windows that you want
All you really need are some friends and a rock
Throwing a brick never felt so damn good
Smash more glass
Scream with a laugh
And wallow with the crowds
Watch them kicking peoples' ass

But you get to the place
Where the real slavedrivers live
It's walled off by the riot squad
Aiming guns right at your head
So you turn right around
And play right into their hands
And set your own neighbourhood
Burning to the ground instead

[Chorus]
Riot-the unbeatable high
Riot-shoots your nerves to the sky
Riot-playing into their hands
Tomorrow you're homeless
Tonight it's a blast

Get your kicks in quick
They're callin' the national guard
Now could be your only chance
To torch a police car

Climb the roof, kick the siren in
And jump and yelp for joy
Quickly-dive back in the crowd
Slip away, now don't get caught

Let's loot the spiffy hi-fi store
Grab as much as you can hold
Pray your full arms don't fall off
Here comes the owner with a gun

[Chorus]

The barricades spring up from nowhere
Cops in helmets line the lines
Shotguns prod into your bellies
The trigger fingers want an excuse
Now

The raging mob has lost its nerve
There's more of us but who goes first
No one dares to cross the line
The cops know that they've won

It's all over but not quite
The pigs have just begun to fight
They club your heads, kick your teeth
Police can riot all that they please

[Chorus]

Tomorrow you're homeless
Tonight it's a blast

Side-Line: Is there any way we can trade a ban for Haywire instead of x**?

Dude. You are fucking obsessed with me. LMAO. How much time do you spend on here making nasty comments to/about me? Not even my psychotic stalkers have put as much time into me as you. I'm flattered.

Side-Line: Please?

Haywire, please please PLEASE show up at next WGT! I HAVE to see you and Dave act it out together!!

Like, in real life, that is

Behind a protective screen

I'm not sure she will ever show her face in New York or WGT again. But you never know...

A couple of outside impressions here.
I found it interesting. No offense, S-L, but this is a little telling that it's not just some folks here grumbling on.
Again, just trying to be constructive (I wouldn't wish anything but success on any of us trying to 'get the music out there', that's for sure!); a little more up-frontness for this release seems to have been needed. I understand that 'it will make sense' come July 4 - or you say it will - but for now, it's PR gone awry. :|

this is a little telling that it's not just some folks here grumbling on.

Not at all, everyone else I've talked to, who have never even heard of Side-Line has been expressing the same disappointment.

i didnt download, because i dont use any torrent programm. do i miss alot?

I'd like to know how the shit this is a success. What, a ton of people downloaded it, thereby wasting their bandwidth, and these guys got tons of Email addresses to spam people with against their will?

@dmyer: I didn't get it through a torrent, either, as I try to avoid those as much as possible...

@Pulse State: Hey, I can call the roll-out of my last album a smashing success, too - but if you looked at my numbers you might call it a dismal failure. So define 'success' and you have your answer. ;)

@Out Out: I define "success" as "not being killed by a rabid chicken".

It was like promising you dinner then giving you a bag of chips. Yeah technically any food can be dinner, but when you present it a certain way you build up expectations wether you intend to or not. And requiring an email address is gonna make anyone fearful of receiving spam.

Just chalk it up as a learning experience and move on.

@outout: shhh dont criticize or out out will be out of sideline lol

to quote monty python "help help, im being oppressed"

I think the S-L folks know my intention is to never criticize unless I can be constructive about it. I just wanna help... it benefits everyone. :)

Burning question: Who will be teh next BANNED ?? OUT OUT seems to be in front right now. But Goa-head might be in danger, too???? Or pulse state or r3co1l ? Let´s VOTE who is next.....

Here´s another outside SL link with "some" dissapointment...
http://www.neurobeat-radio.de/forum/ipb/index.php?showtopic=2752

Stop spreading fantasy. This was a huge success.

PS - that is the proper spelling of fantasy.

i would just like to point out at this juncture that:

1. bernard has STILL not answered almost any of my original questions

2. the x** guys are still banned, but also still here

3. cheese is delicious, and i will never understand vegans for that reason

3. nobody- bernard included of course- has managed to post any evidence that more than one or two people weren't completely and utterly annoyed by this whole dumb thing

4. i'm still pumped about the upcoming marvel THOR movie

5. i thought pulse was an awesome album, so when 242 DOES actually release new material, i'll still be excited about it- i just won't believe it's happening until i hear about it from an independent source

6. i think this whole thread can just move to wyominf and call it a day