Been wondering, as the new EP is supposed to be up...

Yeah, i wonder what's happening there too.

Dude, it might be a few days... slow done, relax.

Can I buy you a cup of coffee to calm down? Perhaps watching 'You me and Dupree' for the 14th time for shear entertainment value until the sight update ….??

They were emailing me 2X times the last few days. Did you piss off Matt again or Phil?

Never pissed them off in my life lol Matt/Phil are awsome!

But they would respond/update all the time! The site looks dead in the water and no replies regarding orders is well... :/

Plus I wanna know if the new stuff has shipped! (COME ON HOCICO!) and when other new releases that come out in a week or two (ie. New Accessory) are gonna be added for ordering!

MNS DONT FAIL ME NOW!! I LOVE YOU GUYS!

I tried to order a few things yesterday and it kept faalling over when try to pay.....hopefully that was just a glitch and not an indication of some problem. I did email Matt but havn't heard back, but if they are busy then don't expect to hear back straight away anyway.

Glad to hear I am not the only one. They're one of the retailers I deal with a lot, and I haven't gotten a reply from any of their emails in a couple of weeks, which is extremely unusual. Hope everything is alright. : /

Funny you should mention that...haven't heard anything about the rest of my order for some time. They are usually quick and reliable.

Fuck MNS, I'm so done with you guys... it's been 48 hours and no response!! Screw you matt; what' up Phil -- shit or get off the pot!

*'wedding crashers' playing in background*...

They haven't shipped my KetVector CD yet... I hope everything is ok.

I think people are refering to no respones when its been almost 2 weeks; not 48 hrs Mr Dramatic. In addition the lack of updates for a few weeks coupled with new releases or shipped orders is what people are curious about. Maybe you dont have issue with a few hundred bucks shelled out on pre-orders, but I know I like to keep abreast of whats going on! plus, I am inpatient for some of the new items out there and want to toss more money MNS' way for new items they didnt even list yet.

I always have a few hundred bucks shelled out for pre-orders from MNS. The shit gets here when it get here; it's best to relax. -- take a deep breath with me *sucking air*… now exhale. Better? Please don't let this little 'issue'affect your family, it's not their fault or worth it in the long haul.

Music Non stop are the best, they always do an outstanding keeping me informed; never an issue. I tell ya -- a good Owen Wilson movie might calm you perhaps, it's helped me in time of great need several times... trust me... you know it, I know it! Right?

I see this situation is affecting you; the rather harsh post regarding Philadelphia stores closing because people are haunted by images of bums masturbating outside the clubs; (case in point). It does sound like a colorful scene in your neck of the woods; I can't blame you there. Things well get better!

lol fucker

They were illegally downloaded. :(

I DOWNLOADED THEM XD

Where has MNS HOINH?

Hi Everyone

I don't know what's going on with MNS. No update for around 2 weeks and no weekly newsletter. They don't answer the phone!

I tried to order some stuff around a week ago and have given up. Does not accept payment. I did get an email from them saying they were having problems with their payment server and hoped to be back up and running A.S.A.P, that was around 5 days ago.

I feel that is could be a more serious situation than I thought. I've been using them since they were a small online shop to one of the biggest suppliers of alternative music and their service has always been wonderful.

Anyway try, http://www.resurrectionmusic.com/ they have also been around for some time, have a shop in Camden Town, always helpful even when you mess them around wanting to listen to dics (in the shop), also their prices are cheaper than MNS.

PS. I'm now thankful I ordered my Hocico Limited Box straight from Out of Line in Germany. Came on the day of release! I hope you guys sort things out and get your stuff but at the moment it's not looking good.

Hmm, I've been wondering about this too.

They haven't sent me stuff that was supposed to be released a week or two ago. (Gary Numan re-release).

PayPal payment option has disappeared off the site, no loyalty points showing.

It doesn't look good... :(

What worries me is that I have a pretty significant invoice for A23 rarity CDs open with them that is past due... They've always been professional with me in the past, so I give them the benefit of the doubt, but surely if there is a problem SOMEONE could make a statement to let people know what's going on...

I dont think they are "skipping town" or anything like that. Based on what was said here and knowing I had emailed them myself a week ago or so regarding the Paypal option, Im going to bet they are having issues with the website itself and trying to get that worked out.

If that is the case, an announcement would be cool just so the world knows whats up. It cant be good for worldwide business with everything in a mire and no updates, no clue whats going on.

I hope you are right because I don't want to scare people and the guys there have always been professional.

However, as a person who runs a paying website I'd be concerned if my website was not accepting payment and would have sorted it out A.S.A.P. I did have a problem last week for 24 hours and was not too pleased to have missed out on business. I think MNS has not been accepting payment for over a week.

With them not answering the phone makes we wonder if they are having cash flow problems.

In saying this all maybe OK in a few days! Just to cheer you up!

Just to add my 2 cents worth I stopped using MNS after I had some trouble ordering sitd's limited edition coded message 12 album. It was on order for nearly two weeks before I was informed that they no longer had the limited edition, even though it was still being advertised on their site so I cancelled and went with Resurrection Records instead. A mate also had trouble with MNS, took 3 weeks plus to get an album delivered. They have a great website but Im far from impressed with the service. For my money you cant go wrong with resurrection records, never had a problem with them.

If you live in the US, I'd recommend DDT (COP International) over MNS, Metropolis, or Amazon:

http://www.copint.com/onlinestore.asp?pagetype=featured

I compared a bunch of albums I wanted... their prices were usually better, often $4+ better. Got my order in just a few days. Thumbs up all around. (ty arick)

Here's an example of some of the prices from a post I did elsewhere a couple weeks ago:

"Mask" by Soman:
Amazon: 15.98
MNS: 19.29
Metropolis: 13.98
DDT: 9.99

"Loudspeaker" by Destroid:
Amazon: 15.98
MNS: 19.29
Metropolis: 13.98
DDT: 9.98

"The Beauty of Destruction" by Noisuf-X:
Amazon: n/a
MNS: 19.29
Metropolis: 21.98
DDT: 15.00

They have a lot of stuff at $9.99, which is the price point that gets me buying a lot (because that seems reasonable for an album).

MNS has a great selection, but their prices kinda blow.

I do order from COP a good bit and their prices are great, BUT, COP does not have close to the selection of releases MNS has and in some cases, receive the music much later then MNS.

Though, I see the 2xCD Hocico is shipping from COP and Im still fucking waiting to hear back from MNS about this..

..." Based on what was said here and knowing I had emailed them myself a week ago or so regarding the Papal option, I'm going to bet they are having issues with the website itself and trying to get that worked out."...

That's a reasonable assessment; but is there something else happening behind closed doors? Is the shop in a mini dire straits? Usually I always use Papal, but haven't ordered anything for about a week. At that time, Paypal was accepted.

Come to think of it, I haven't received anything from MNS the last few weeks. Perhaps I'll fly over to London and track down Phil and Matt and see what the hell is going on and do lunch (my treat).

Stuff currently on pre-order from MNS:

Klinik - Projects 2CD
Wumpscut - Schadlingsbox (Limited 2CD Box Set)
Xotox - Den Zehn Morgen (Limited 2CD Box Set)
Hocico - Memoria Atras (Limited 2CD Wooden Box Set + T-Shirt ( L )
Dive - Are You Real (Limited 3CD Box Set)
Punch Inc - Fightclub
Yendri - Dreams Of An Undead Girl (Limited CD Digipak)
Wumpscut - Dwarf Craving (Limited 4CD Box Set)
Somatic Responses - Digital Darkness (CD)
Tzolk'in ( Empusae & Flint Glass ) - Haab' (CD)
Arcana - Raspail
Run Level Zero - Arctic Noise
Colony 5 - Buried Again
Unheilig - Puppenspiel

*sitting on my laurels waiting for my Hocico box*…..

@Darkmeat

Rememer even though you have stuff on pre-order MNS don't charge you till the item is shipped.


does leave you , and myself in the precarious position of " should I order from someone else" but if I do MNS might come backup and send the items on pre-order thus ending up with 2 of the same :((

@ Satan --

Not sure exactly what you're saying, but think I'll try to remain calm for a few more days before canceling everything, which I'm trying to avoid. I know pretty much what the MNS policy is...(re: ... "MNS don't charge you till the item is shipped.")...


On a somewhat related note -- sometimes COP have items listed on the web site, but it's not really in their inventory. No different than most I suppose...

Well I use Paypal and that means Im out of cash since it goess off my CC. So all the items I have preordered, about the same list as DM, I am out of money for right now.

@ Seraphin --- Are you going to hang around and wait? You guys are right; something doesn't seem quite right at MNS. Guess I didn't really notice until yesterday.

Has anyone tried to actually phone them? Sideline always links releases to MNS and MNS advertises here; Sideline has no scoop on whats going on? Come on Bernard!

Also, Darkmeat, didnt you say one of them emailed you a day or two ago about the new X-Fusion?

@ Seraphin --

I don't "DO" phones to Europe EVAR, besides it would cost a fortune from Seattle; like a million bucks!

Yeah, Phil did email me Monday regarding forthcoming X-Fusion -- I can put you on the "CC" list if you want. I feel privileged and honored to be allowed to talk with the MNS gang and others can't. ;-)

What the hell is going on at MNS headquarters? Jesus fucking christ! The world is going to end without my :W box!!!

I wonder why Phil emailed you but no one else? Obviously they have email access then and the site must be remotely working.

@ seraphin : no news no, but I have had other things to do lately, i'll send them a mail in the next days, too much work right now.

@Side-Line

Thank you! :)

I hope all is well.

Me too, I'm waiting for my Ketvector CD.

Hi Guys

I phoned them last week 3 times - twice around 2pm. No answer but I thought it maybe lunch time. Then the next day @ 9 am again no answer.

Here's a copy of the email sent to me:

Wed 27/02/2008 19:29 (PLEASE note date and time)

Hi there

We are currently encountering technical issues with our website with regards to taking payments. These are ongoing, however we hope to have this situation resolved shortly. As soon as they are resolved we shall let you know. The order has not been placed and no payment has been taken.

Kind regards
MNS

Well, nothing has been sent out to me the last few weeks, so things are indeed getting weird as Seraphin stated. Some of the items supposedly arrived in their shop late February. Guess I'll email them today.

I hope their database wasn't wipedout or anything,

I'VE SPENT OVER $500 TO EARN ABOUT $7 IN BONUS MONEY AND I WANT THAT MOTHER FUCKERS!!!

I wonder if MNS has been effected from the fallout of the Camden Fire. I know Resurrection Records supplies MNS with most of its stock and I'm not sure if they were effected by the fire a few weeks back.

Has anyone been up to Camden recently and visited Resurrection?

Resurrection wasn't affected by the fire......

Interestingly enough, MNS log into their Myspace page heh.

Ive started the tedious process of contacting my credit card company regarding all the charges over the past few months. I guess we'll see.

What are Resurrection Records like? Good prices? Ship overseas? Fast stock on new items, etc?

..."What are Resurrection Records like? Good prices? Ship overseas? Fast stock on new items, etc?"...

Been there a few times, when on vacation (holiday). It's a little place downstairs (or was ) -- they do ship overseas now me thinks. Perhaps some London folks can elaborate. The prices are decent.

I swear by Resurrection. Cool shop and really good turnaround on mail order items. My goods just get lobbed down the M4 so the service might be a whole lot different for overseas orders lol. But generally they are a great company to deal with and I've never had a problem with them, unlike MNS.

wow.. There was a Myspace comment asking them whats up since nothing was updated, etc and it got deleted lol

Maybe we should all just start bombaring them with myspace messages???

I tried calling but like everyone else who has tried....no answear :((

This is what I sent today and playing the role knowing nothing prior:


"Phil, Matt -- the gang,

I've noticed there hasn't much activity at MNS and/or few website updates regarding forthcoming releases etc. Curious if some of my order backlog, that was released in February was send out?

Kind regards"
-D


@ Satan -- Perhaps a personal visit is in order; what the hell. Where do these fuckers live?

It sucks because the guys/store has always been very gracious and coordial. Whatever the problem is, it smacks of unprofessionalism that a simple mass email to customers or small website post explain to everyone whats going on. The fact they or someone, can login and check Myspace messages on the site and/or delete them shows that someone involved with MNS is around/available.

It all just appears very shadey from this standpoint. regardless if the issue resolved, this has dented my relationship with the store at least.

@ Seraphin --

Stop it you're scaring me! ;-)

MNS was my last hope in this miserable world for professionalism -- the benchmark for service and consistency.

I think they actually took off on an extended holiday to Tahiti and now rubbing sand between their toes, getting blow jobs and sucking exotic fufu drinks with umbrellas. Fucking commi-bastards!!!

i think they are gonners...they used tomail me back pretty much straight away...i had copies of my stock they sold out of and...not even a hello...

rumours are its over...

Last response i had from them was last friday (29th Feb). They were looking into an order i placed back in November as i still hadn't received part of it. They said they would email me with an update once they've heard back from one of their suppliers, so i'm not giving up on them yet.

They posted a myspace blog yesterday saying that they now stock Marsheux Merchandise....WTF

I've posted a something on there so will see how long it stays up....

Satan,

It's March. That post is from 6th February (though their login details show that they were "in" yesterday).

edit button, they didn't post something yesterday....my bad

Thats what kills me: They can log into Myspace but no one can post a single fucking thing to their customers about the store status. Well at any rate, I should be hearing back from lovely Visa tomorrow to see about getting my money back so I can buy the CDs elsewhere.

Incidently, I emailed Resurrection Records about overseas shipping but havent heard back from them yet.

@ seraphin:
- they do not charge before sending
- if you used paypal, ask them to refund you, easy, a customer is always right with Paypal :).

All quiet on the 'MNS western front'; no emails or news. I may be cancelling all my orders shortly too Seraphin -- really didn't want the hassle, but this kind of thing happens occasionally in the mysterious business world. I'm now thinking this situation is consistent what 'Isolation Tank' turned out to be like in the late 90's.

@Side-Line

Problem is, Paypal takes that money right off my credit card so Im out the money. 2 of the orders are from Nov and Oct; pre-orders that kept getting delayed. Paypal wont go back that far for a refund so Im going through Visa for that.

its alot of hassle in the end from a business I really enjoyed. :/

@ seraphin: in that case yes.

This is on the MNS website:

"MUSIC NON STOP LIMITED OFFICIAL STATEMENT

It is with great regret that we have to announce that after 9 years Music Non Stop has now officially stopped trading. Despite our never-ending efforts over the last 12 months, and a concentrated attempt to soldier-on in some form or another in the past weeks, it has regrettably come time to call it a day.

There are a number of factors that have resulted in this sad conclusion, some of which include the current exchange rates of the Euro and the dollar against the pound, the lack of consistent ‘big name’ releases in this scene, increase in distributor and day to day running costs, and other methods now available of obtaining new music, to name but a few. We have always tried to deliver the best for our customers and have always put them first from day one and set high standards for ourselves. We have also tried our best to push and promote smaller labels and bands to try and help them get more exposure. We hope that in the time that we have been trading we have provided a service most people have been very happy with and we are just sorry that we are unable to continue. As a result we sadly have to report that all outstanding orders have had to be cancelled as we are unable to fulfil them. We apologise for the inconvenience that this will cause. Unfortunately we are unable to answer any emails on an individual basis. Paypal customers please contact Paypal with regards to a refund.

Finally - and this is the most important bit - we would like to thank ALL of the real music fans and customers that have supported MNS over the past 9 years (WE and YOU know who you are ), The labels ( especially Out Of Line & Trisol ), The Distributors ( especially Audioglobe ) and the friends ( especially the Infest crew and Bernard and everyone at Side-Line ). You are the people that have kept this scene alive and will continue to do so.

Thank you and we wish you all the best.
MNS

Those wishing to seek an alternative mail-order store might want to check out http://www.outoflineshop.de

MNS Ticket Information
For customers who have pre-ordered tickets for the following shows; Emilie Autumn (London), Dragons (Manchester), Dragons + Ulrich Schnauss (London), Gotham 9 (London), IAMX (London), Unheilig (London) or Xotox (London) you can pre-order tickets from http://eee-uk.net/eeetickets/index.php

For customers who have pre-ordered tickets for the following shows at The Corporation in Sheffield; Emilie Autumn, IAMX, Pride & Fall, Psyche or Unheilig, can pre-order tickets from http://www.ticketweb.co.uk/user/?region=gb_northeast&query=schedule&venue=corporation "

worst news this year!

Son of a bitch! I just ordered something through them. Shit better not have been taken from my account...

FUCKING CHRIST

ahh i just got the E-mail of the bad news. sucks!!!

sad news.. another sign of the times, but their prices suck..

wow. that sucks.

@ seraphin,

I'm not sure if the folks at Resurrection are back from their holiday yet, so that may explain the email delay.

the lack of consistent ‘big name’ releases in this scene


yup, industrial sucks

Bollocks.

As I've never had a problem with MNS in the 6\7 years i've been from them it is a sad day indeed, so where do I get my stuff from now????
Resurrections fine but don't have the wide range that MNS did, and with the euro exchange getting from Germany is going to be expensive. The US is ok occasionly but sometimes do get hit by customs so that makes it expensive.....


Any other recommendations in the UK???

Too bad. I hated their prices and shipping. It took way too long to receive items. This will bring the rise of a new leader! I know they'll be better than this crap was.

Bummer - I never like to see shops close down. Except Wal-Marts and shit like that...

Although its left unsaid and we've been through it a million times, I cant help be wonder if MP3 shit helped ruin sales.

these have been among the most correct guys I have dealt with since I started in this scene. period.

Holy Crapolla!

my primary source for that kinda music :~( sucks hardcore...

As hinted at in the website, being in the UK is not ideal for a company in that business at the moment. The Pound is falling relative to the Euro, making mainland European releases more expensive, and the Dollar is weak against the Pound, so the US-based customer takes a double hit through exchange rate mechanisms.

yeah thats the thing though: MNS had such great customer service, that I had zero problem paying the extra for shipping fees or USD vs Pound. it fucking blows they are done. No store yet has come close to their stock and and such. Going to take some serious surfing around to get stuff now rather then consolidate it all from one place.

Motherfuckers owed me $1000 I will now never see.

Very sad news I found them a bit expensive especially with the pound exchange rate. They always had great service and variety no one can really match. I somewhat based electrostate of the musicnonstop concept and hope to offer competitive prices not only the United States, but also the European market. We are not solely selling cds, but also mp3's and FLAC files.

:(

Guess I'm going back to infrarot...

Fuck it ....


Just ordered the full monty 'Wumpscut - Schadlingsbox (Limited Box Set) with everything including the kitchen sink from the :w shop. At least Rudy will sign the damn thing. neato..

And 'Hocico - Memoria Atras (Limited 2CD)' box from COP.


Now fighting with Paypal to get the refund(s) for cancelled MNS orders .... aaack... pain in the ass.

Infrarot Ive always found to be hella expensive for overseas shipping. Outrageously expensive..like they are chartering the fucking plane to fly it over or something.

Fuck in hell ... sorry to read MNS is closing .... argh ... working with PayPal is going to be a drag. Damn.

you should be able getting refunds from paypal quite easily.
try that first, then if that doesn't work, get to talk to your cc company.

Damn, MNS always had shit no one else carried - I didn't give a fuck about the price or wait. Oh well, if e-tailers start taking the plunge, at least I have iTunes to back me up ::rolls eyes::

Put two orders in to COP and Metro. last night though...

People in the US should goto Cop-International's Shop If you do an artist search, you will see the do carry a lot of stuff!
It is my personal favorite outlet in the US.

Would probably be a good idea for EU customers as well! With the power of the Euro... you can get some good deals!

another alternative would be

http://www.crunchpod.com :)

It's sad to see Music Non Stop go but nothing really cool lasts forever :(

It was one of the first mail order places I ordered from to get european releases and rare stuff before it was available here in the US.

Great shame! I've been with them on and off for the whole 9 years. I can see their problems falling pound against euro, high pound against dollar. Great for us wanting to visit the US but sucks for you US guys wanting to buy here.

Liked MNS because they did paypal. Great for those without crdit cards, infrarot don't do paypal.

However, I'm finding buy direct for the label is working out a little cheaper and most do paypal. Takes more work to finding the stuff. I got my Hocico box set from out of line for around £48 including postage, on the day of release, was £50 + postage of MSN. Ok I only saved £5 ($10) but it is better than nothing.

Good fucking riddance.

Ordered some stuff from Out of Line. Don't like the lack of proper PayPal checkout, but oh well.

Might try a few others before settling.

for us UKers, there is always resurrection records still, but they dont have as good selection IMO.

@fritter242

Glad to see you're supporting the scene..:-

http://thepiratebay.org/user/fritter242/1/9

Holy Crap! LOL

@Cydonia,

Shes publically said here before that the user is not her.

@Cydonia

You may want to know what you're talking about before trying to "PWN" somebody. It was established quite some time ago (on this board, no less)that the person on Pirate Bay is someone else who used Fritter's name. It also happened to Tommy T. They have both been very vocal about anti-illegal downloading. Hell, Fritter's husband make his fucking living with music.

Try again...

Nice try, Cydonia, but no cookie or trollbait for you.

I spent 20 years breaking my back to "support the scene"; I've been in more bands over that time than most people here, and have purchased more than my fair share of CDs and concert tickets. And yes, my husband DOES make his living with music. So please take your assumptions elsewhere; the person on Pirate Bay has used not only this old online nick, but the nicks of several other people on this board.

Music NonStop can suck my nuts because they HAD to know that this situation was going to happen to them - bankruptcy or business failure is NEVER a surprise (the fact that they have been instructed to not give any payouts indicates a bankruptcy). They haven't paid my husband, and they haven't paid a friend of mine for over 4 years now. So they can fuck off, truly and really; and if you insist on continuing under your very poor attempt to "call me out", then that is your wankfest alone, Sunny Jim.

I disagree! I worked for a company that went bankrupt and it was a pretty huge fucking surprise to me. :P

Yeah, but buttsekks would be a surprise for you... :p

It is a sad day to see music non stop go under. They were my preferred first choice when it came to ordering music and I never had a problem with one transaction. (and there were many of them) I know there were many factors causing this, but it really is disgusting how few people in this world really like this kind of music. I mean, I wouldnt want the same ass hats that like popular music like the shit they play on mtv to be in our scene, but when a top act like Tom Shear is on tour in a mini van and a u-haul trailer......something is wrong!

@ Fritter242 and Tom : sorry to hear about this. I speak on a personal level now and not in Side-Line's name when I say that from my experience, they have been very correct in paying out during all these years. And yes, I won't see anything either from the affiliate sales from the pas months, but I don't give a damn. Fact is that a good online merchant which was a first class supporter of this scene has gone for good. Hell, I wouldn't have bothered dropping the due affiliate amount if it would have helped them.

Business is business, but this one has a very personal angle as well. And Phil, Luke and Matt had the heart on the right place for this scene. Of course this won't bring your or my money back, but so be it. We at Alfa Matrix lost around a hundred fifty thousand dollar when Studio went out of business a few years ago, but we are still working with the guys that were there then because they couldn't be blamed for what had happened. In this case the MNS crew was victim of a crappy dollar, and so on. Things that were out of their hands and will because I know they have tried to continue everything and tried to find a solution. I know from first hand that Phil and co are devastated by the fact that they can't pay the money due to their distributors. These guys lived in and for the scene.

So yes, it sucks you didn't get your 1000 dollar. But it sucks a lot more that we have lost a major player in the online mailorder bizz for this scene.

Well I didn´t order there (don´t order online except Ebay much)... but I would also support SLs view, since the loss of every decent firm that tried to support the "scene" (which or whatever is meant) or good artists is sad.

Otherwise this thread also proves that here are much customers for original CDs rather than evil filesharers.. just a remark..

Definitely agreed. This feels like another nail in the coffin in our little scene. I do hope that when stuff like this happens, it makes people at least stop and think. Your support for retailers, zines, club-nights, and bands really does make a difference. I've never been a believe in supporting 'teh scene' just for the sake of supporting it. This just encourages mediocrity. But if there are labels, artists, DJs, or magazines you genuinely enjoy, its important to get behind them and not take them for granted. There isn't a lot of money in this kind of music begin with, so you can be sure that just about everyone involved in the scene in one way or the other is doing so out of a passion for it above all else.

I apologize for my little outburst here. It was a gut reaction to getting some rather shocking news. Don't get me wrong... I am still plenty angry about what panned out, but I do recognize that this wasn't anything malicious on the part of the MNS crew. They always did well by me before and were a pleasure to do business with. I think they just made some bad decisions in their final days and I was unfortunate enough to get caught up in it. As I said before, the best thing for people to take from this is that your actions and support really DO matter. Go out and buy a CD. Turn a friend on to a band they don't know about. Meet your friends for drinks in a local club. When a band you like comes to town, go out and see them. It really doesn't take much, and in a tiny scene like ours, every little contribution counts for an enormous amount. And now that I am sounding like Sally Struthers, I'll bow out... ; )

Also agreed, but I´m more into support of good music and art rather than a "scene" to be honest. I have much more fave music and connections out of the ebm/indus scene. But it is still in my top 3 of musicstyles and besides the fact that I like (some,most?) of the music, the underground appeal is still there from that I was attracted 15 years ago or so... But more and more this scene was commercialized and that also turned me away. This is why I rather support the smaller bands and events I like....instead M. Manson or E. Autumn (see other thread). (rant off)

hmmm.. never ordered from them, but went to the site couple times a month to check whats new, hot and not. They did well.

"I know from first hand that Phil and co are devastated by the fact that they can't pay the money due to their distributors."

This bit worries me, given that they got a lot of their stock via Resurrection Records. Losing MNS is one thing, but if it knocks on to Resurrection too, that's a disaster for the UK.

@ raedarius

Seriously, now that would be a fucking disaster.

@tshear23: Wish all the other "scene supporters" made as much sense as you :)

any uk bods fancey releasing a 'tribute to mns' type compo album?

bah, taking this to its own thread

Even though they were pricey because I live in the US, I still bought from them as they had such a wide selection and their page is very well designed and functional. I hate ressurrection's ui it looks like someone used aol create a page. Storming the base is a pretty good online music merchant, and I just bought a bunch of stuff from them. Cop Intl is also another good one as well. It sucks that MNS had to close

''Also agreed, but I´m more into support of good music and art rather than a "scene" to be honest. ''

thats the way it should be ! just support the music you like...no matter what style/scene/whatever..

DAMN we're never gonna see our money back!! Oh well, we have to lick our wounds just like everybody else:(

* f242 -- I thought you where a Seattle DUDE all this time.... hee

..."Music NonStop can suck my nuts because they HAD to know that this situation was going to happen to them - bankruptcy or business failure is NEVER a surprise (the fact that they have been instructed to not give any payouts indicates a bankruptcy)."



Well, I shutter to think how much money I've handed to them over the years, but for some reason I'm not that pissed off; or directly. They perhaps did the very best they could. Yes, I'm fucking surprised -- this caught me totally off guard. Yes, I'll miss their "air tight" packages in the mail box and efficient service including responsive courteous friendly emails. It does blow though there wasn't a little more warning.



@Seraphin --

..." No store yet has come close to their stock and and such. Going to take some serious surfing around to get stuff now rather then consolidate it all from one place."...



Yeah, that's what I'll miss most -- the consolidation of so many great releases. That creates a problem for me specifically because I'm particularly fond of European box versions in particular in lieu of the USA type.

I've already resigned to the fact I probably won't get any of my money back from Paypal, but we'll see. I contacted Phil, Payapl and my credit car company -- currently filling out the necessary paperwork, but don't expect much. I've already moved on and took my outstanding MNS pre-orders elsewhere.... i.e. :Wumpscut, Hocico box sets and all the other miscellaneous shit I want. arrrgh!

RIP Music Non Stop

Truly sadden to hear this. They were my main source of "scene" music, and I never had any problems with them. Not sure where to go now, hopefully I can find another European online shop. In my experience it takes bloody ages to ship anything from the US...

Yeah, just want to the echo the sentiment expressed here in this thread...MNS was where I purchased 90% of my music. I really thnk the scene is gonna feel this loss in terms of decreased CD sales. My experience with other online retailers pales in comparison to MNS. Infrarot in particular i have found to be very difficult to deal with, plus their shipping charges were insane last time I checked.

Deejaydead on ebay I think will be getting a lot more business from me anyway. He's a good seller: good communication and fairly decent delivery charges.

Just curious, someone said they do not charge until the item is shipped, so if you pay with paypal, why should you have trouble getting it back, if MNS does not have the money (cause they did not charge right, the item was not shipped) then who has the money, where did it go from paypal, some has to have he money, if its no the buyer or MNS.

@ mind2069: they don't charge the creditcard, but i you use paypal, you pay in advance, since paypal takes the money directly. Just two different ways of using your credit card that is.

^ I'll have to research what has been sent out and charged via Paypal (the middle man). The whole exercise is a little tedious, but have good records for this very reason. And it's just not a few orders on my case.

Again, I been through this type of process before and know what to expect. I've used Papal for loads of consumer items over the years, not just music.

muffinkt; people don't want to listen to sense. They want to harbor their opinions and don't want people to change their minds, because they think they know how things run. There are some exceptions, but by and large people want things for free, and they like being stuck in ruts; so all of this will just keep happening because nobody learns from their own history.

darkmeat; that has always been the idea, when I was dealing with promoters - the minute someone finds out you're a chick - at least in the 90s - they didn't take you seriously as someone to do business with.

Side-Line; While I don't believe that this situation cropped up out of any type of maliciousness, MNS did not handle this well at all; they ordered a fairly large shipment of CDs from Tom only a month ago, and that is money he will never see, they never paid him. I work with collections and bankruptcy - bankruptcy is NEVER a surprise, and MNS seems to be acting like this has come out of nowhere for them, an attitude I refuse to believe. I am sorry that another distributor is out of business, especially if they were as good as everyone seems to be saying they were - HOWEVER, why would you place an order a month before you declare going out of business? That is lost overhead for them, certainly, and it fucks over the artists they claim to enjoy supporting; it simply doesn't make any sense, and it was a terrible move on their part. I'm still pissed off about this- if my employer refused to pay me for my work, I would certainly go work elsewhere. Unfortunately, Tom doesn't have that luxury, and nobody views working in the music industry as something that should be rewarded with money for hard work. I guess all artists, music or otherwise, are just supposed to spend all that time creating art so that people can rip them off and have for free what they worked so hard to create. That is a shitty attitude, and it needs to stop. If people want the artists they love to keep creating music, that music has to evolve; evolution happens with new gear and learning about new ways to use old gear, and NONE of that shit is for free - yet musicians are expected to simply hand over what they work on, because music is not a tangible, material good. I despise this attitude, and this situation is simply another symptom of a very large problem for anyone who works in the music industry.

Again, even though I have no clear reason for pointing it out, bankruptcy can be as surprising as buttsecks indeed. Here's the sordid tale of the company I worked for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refco

I literally got to work one day and was greeted with the news, "Hey, we're completely fucked suddenly. Want a donut?"

...come to think of it, they didn't even bring in donuts. Cocksuckers.

Damn it! I hate this forum! Now I want donuts!

the writing is on the wall
it's time for change

@fritter242: You (and Tom) have my complete sympathies. I hope MNS do the right thing and at least return product to us independents - heck, they hadn't even listed my new EP - and they've got a small box of them that I sent less than a month ago! I could really use those back...

And I cannot agree more about how peoples' values about music can be so fucking out of whack. Way fucking out of whack.

Yeah, that's what I'm curious about now; what's going on with their secret innovatory?

Agreed, lets hope MNS do the right thing and return product to independents as 'out out' and the others mentioned.


@ fritter242 --

I take you serious, always have -- whatever gender. Good comments in last post to side line btw. Lets hope something good comes out of MNS bankruptcy and the situation doesn't impact the scene too negatively.

lets hope MNS do the right thing and return product to independents as 'out out' and the others mentioned.

Product AND money that they owe us.

@ darkmeat:

Funny thing is, you've probably met her at some point. Hearing your history of going to shows in Seattle, I'm sure kids have crossed paths before.

Hell, *WE'VE* probably met, or even know each other, and don't realize it... ;)

@ electrofreak : when a company closes books, they cannot just return products like that. There is a long list of rules to follow then and it will be the courts of commerce (a curator) that will decide what has to happen.

@ Fritter 242: this was ever meant to happen in the first place, they have been looking for a solution in the past few weeks. It just didn't turn out like it should have. It sucks yes.

@ Fritter242,

"HOWEVER, why would you place an order a month before you declare going out of business?"

There's quite a difference in attitude to bankruptcy in the US and UK (actually liquidation, bankruptcy is for individuals in the UK).

Unlike the US, where it seems that there is not much stigma associated with bankruptcy, and the entrepreneurial spirit is encouraged, there is a massive stigma associated with it in the UK. Banks are generally unwilling to give people who have already been through the process once the necessary loans to start something new. This actually encourages those who care about their business to "work their way through the problem" rather than give up at the earliest signs of trouble. It also means that in many cases the business is too far gone to, for example, sell on as a going concern.

Well, as they don't pay me in advance for my CDs, (they're consigned) they don't own them at all, so they've technically no right to keep them.

@ out out: again, it is no longer MNS who has the rights on it but the court of commerce and they decide what happens with it. UK residents will know the propper legal terms and names, but this is more or less what it looks like. The MNS crew cannot longer act on behalf of MNS really.

Oh brother. That sucks. They probably didn't even open the box - that's how recently some of it was sent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidation

Not sure if it really helps anyone, but this is the UK situation re: liquidation of a company.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080226-music-exec-music-1-0-is-dead.html

:-/

"Your support for retailers, zines, club-nights, and bands really does make a difference."

Blah blah blah.

If the scene wants more support, then it needs to provide more and better service. Better albums, more and better live shows, better zines, etc.

..."more and better"...

There's been a lot of great releases and lives shows recently, stop with the bitching. Zines are rather inconsistent, but nothing new.


Turns out 'Storming the base' had about everything I was looking for. Thanks J.

Storming The Base have always been excellent to me.

IH8ToRegister - Perhaps you didn't read this section of my post: " I've never been a believer in supporting 'teh scene' just for the sake of supporting it. This just encourages mediocrity. But if there are labels, artists, DJs, or magazines you genuinely enjoy, its important to get behind them and not take them for granted."

So if you don't enjoy the stuff coming out these days... by all means, DON'T support it. But if there is stuff out there in the scene you like that you feel hasn't gotten its due attention, why not support it? Or better yet, start your own band, zine, club, etc. and show the world how it should be done. Just whining about how much everything sucks achieves nothing.

IH8ToRegister - his post fits the profile of a prolific p2p downloader, who actually bought about 5% of his music collection

Wow, what a bullshit move on the part of MNS. Sorry, don't care who they are friends with or how many nice emails they sent over the last several years, they get ZERO respect for how they handled that. How anyone can defend that bullshit is beyond me.

And bankruptcy or not, they don't own consignment items. They are still obligated to send them back. It is not an asset of theirs, so it isn't frozen.

As for brankruptcy being a surprise...it's not a surprise to those that have access to the books. Sure it can be a surprise to a low level employee. Don't kid yourself, they saw this coming months ahead of time.

@ rstk: when lquidation is involved everything is seized, cosignement and beyond, it's as simple as that. i you have been involved in a bankrupcy you'd know that things are not that easy and simple as you put it.

it sucks yes, but simply pointing the finger at mns is just too simple.

Tom, I was crabby the day I wrote that -- wasn't necessarily pointed towards you, but a response in general to what you said because everyone else says it.

You put it best in your own post that supporting this scene just for the sake of supporting this scene results in mediocrity, which I also believe.

Interesting dialogue about the UK policies. So, to request a bunch of orders for consignment and then have them seized and liquidated could help pay off the debt no? And at no cost to them?

perhaps, but the bunch of orders would also increase the debt, it sucks that good folks like a23 et al got hosed by this, but that doesn't mean than mns decided to screw them as part of some master plan to get assets before declaring bankruptcy.

SO. HAS anyone tried to get money back from Paypal orders yet?

I just opened a dispute, I purchased the limited edition of Asp - Horror Vacui back in December, here's what I'm getting on Paypal:

Mar. 14, 2008 PayPal Case closed
Mar. 14, 2008 PayPal Case does not meet filing guidelines
Mar. 14, 2008 PayPal Email sent to seller
Mar. 14, 2008 Buyer Complaint Case filed


Looks a little worrying to me. I have my doubts as to whether I'll get anything back at all....PLUS... I'm not actually totally sure what else I have not yet received.

It would have been nice if MNS left the members area of the site open, so we see our outstanding orders.

FUCK!!!!

Well these are the risks in buying online and paying in advance...one of the reason I don´t buy much online at all... or I pay when I receive my order !

Unfortunately I have to buy online, I have no choice.

Except for in very rare limited pre-orders, GUP www.gup.net.au (Australian mailorder) never charges before items are ready to ship to you direct. But also because the market is so small here its impossible to constantly have 100% fulfillment of orders for such a huge amount of music thats available nowadays.

@ Mutilated: I know your pain, I remember I ordered a CD burner online (a few years ago they were quite expensive) and paid in advance since the firm offered discount in advance payment. But I never got my burner nor my money back, cause the firm went bankrupt a week or so after my order :(

Let's get serious; buying online usually isn't a problem and more are for every conceivable consumer item everyday -- plus there's more options available and it's convenient (what an concept). I'm blown away people aren't at this point in time. There's risks with everything; you would have to pay me NOT to buy online and get into my car/buss and hunt down something with cash/money orders etc. It's been years since I've done business that way; it's cumbersome and time consuming. No thanks...

yeah as usual this is another thing proving guys like me right about people and the music scene...the more downloading becomes the norm, the more sales of music die out and distributors go under...and this sucks a lot..

DSBP is gonna lose quite a bit of money now on this deal and who is gonna pay me back? no one....we lose close to a grand on this...yes $1000
or more, as people complain about losing on a couple CD's...I feel your pain BUT, this is way worse...once again.,.the record labels, the independent labels are getting screwed...nightmare scenario to those of us who have just tried to help bands and fans out by making great music available...its totally fucked and thats this society we live in...it is shit.

this happens often now,....the labels and bands are getting fucked over by the so called fans and digital distros who are as faceless as the "invisible man"....they just collect money off the sheeple while the labels and and bands barely get paid if at all, and we get ripped off endlessly by pirates and freeloaders and the labels and bands who really do this out of the passion of the music and love of creating are getting fucked more and more by the minute...I would love to see how so many other people in their jobs and careers would feel if they were not getting paid every week after working 40 or more hours per week...they would be pissed and wouldn't stand for it for long....same thing going on in the music industry, and plus we get flamed and argued with all day when all we do is tell it like it is to try to help things out...
unreal..

sheeple

damn right...lol

didn't ever use MNS but am still sad to see it go. there's only a small selection of stuff available direct from the store where i live, so i'm pretty much relegated to distros and buying straight from the band.
i've been trying some of the distros and so far i've been happy. Metro, Crunchpod , and DSBP have all treated me right thus far.
I've got an order from Vendetta that's on the way so i guess we'll see about them.
i would be ordering from MNS, Alfa Matrix, and others in europe too if my money wasn't worth crap there.
you can find most things stateside eventually with a little searching and patience.

Tommyt,

When you made the same sort of comments about MNS failing and the link to downloading on the news page, I said the following:

"As per the MNS statement, it is more complex than you paint the picture to be. Basing a company of that type in the UK when the pound is weak against the euro and strong against the dollar does not make economic sense in the current world market. On pure pound-dollar exchanges, cds from MNS have gone up about $7 since 2002 for US customers, without an actual price increase in the UK. Now that the pound is falling against the euro, the impact for UK and US customers of MNS will be added to that. Look at your own prices vs those of MNS to see why MNS was struggling. The UK is an expensive place to do business anyway, and exchange fluctuations are making it harder to trade European products to an American market.

Yes, your points are valid, but they are not the whole story here by any means."

To expand on this, the UK industrial market is not huge, even by this scene's standards, so international sales are essential. The biggest market nearby, Germany, is somewhat parochial. German fans, I am told, tend to buy from German shops due to currency and language convenience (also, why buy domestic product from an international source after the price has been hiked by exchange rates?). Much of Europe that uses the Euro will be better off buying from a distributor which deals in the same currency. The US is an obvious target market for MNS due to language and market size, but the dollar has dropped from $1.40 to $2 to the pound in the last seven years. US sellers such as yourself, who provide your US customers with a price for European product based on dollar to euro exchange, avoid the double hit of the Euro-Pound-Dollar exchanges involved in a purchase from MNS. Also, the US is seriously out of step with most of the Western world in terms of what is considered an acceptable price for a cd, making UK prices seem really high to a US customer.

I am in the UK: I have bought from you in the past and will probably do so again (if you restock the Aliens Productions items that is...) as you provide an excellent service and are ridiculously cheap compared with MNS. It would be wrong to blame your shop for the decline of MNS, obviously, but the financial markets make you better value than MNS, even for a UK customer.

In retrospect there are perhaps two flaws to the MNS business model. One is operating in the UK, for the reasons above. The other is having a fantastic website and release notification system which serves as an encyclopedia of the music we like, but which also serves as a handy reference point before placing orders elsewhere.

I got a PayPal refund. Got a £60 back.

Here comes the refund fucking bullshit. This is what has me furious with this entire situation and MNS employees not lending a hand:

I used Paypal to "Pre-order" my orders. That means you get CHARGED regardless if the order is in stock or not.

Go back a year..to October when MNS was taking pre-orders for things like the And One "Bodypop 1/2" CD and so forth.

Heres the fun: Paypal says: we only go back 40 days; talk to your credit card company. Visa says: we only go back 120 days; we cant refund.

So Im fucked out of anything pre-ordered from back then. If a store knows, and a store DOES KNOW that they are having issues, they should start issuing refunds for items that people had paid for, months in advance. Or dont even offer the pre-order.