What's wrong? I thought capitalism was all the rage in the USA?

yeah, this makes a good case for downloading. thankfully i'm not a fan of that goofy bald prick.

This is as stupid as multiple comic book covers...

...and UK/Euro singles getting released in two versions to get all the B-Sides.

@euroticaustic

Dude they've done that with singles since before I was wee, but yeh, stupid.

I have found the silver lining to the RIAA!

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/22/1653212

Argh. Asinine of Billy to think this is a good thing. But then, people like him in that highest strata don't give a shit about anyone but themselves, don't remember that they, too, were once stuggling, starting out, or just indie. Asshole.

But nowhere in the article was mentioned the RIAA (not that I'm defending those corporate-lobbied pricks or anything) I'm just sayin' that it's Billy Pumpkinhead (no offense, XTC) and his greed, and his label's greed, and a piss-poor attempt at marketing, er, sucking money from fans' pockets. I agree, what self-respecting Plumpkins fan isn't going to download the bonus tracks they didn't get on their version? Sheesh.

And for once, I agree with Pissfuck, er Pitchfork about something. Rare that that happens.

Yeah, smashing pumkins sux.

@bloosqr: now that is freakin' amusin'.


Regarding the whole different release thing. This is different than different b-sides on (hopefully) reasonably priced singles. This is different bonus tracks on full-priced albums ovly available at specific retailers. It's definitely a tie-in to generate foot traffic to those stores, so I suspect kickbacks to the label for the exclusive versions. Shit-tay.

@ Witchy-- I just remember specifically hating it with UK singles as they'd still count them as ONE when soundscanning them (or however they counted copies) for chart positioning.

@eurocaustic: yeah, when they'd call them 'pt.1' and 'pt.2' or stuff like that.

the kicker in all of this is that its store-specified. i mean and one made the so kinglt liebe/S-E-X singles so that you'd have to buy each one to get all the tracks, but there weren't any specific stores that were getting one and not the other. that pisses me off more than anything.

i don't really see corgan's logic in this. extremely short-sighted on his part.

Greed and ego can make one shortsighted.

what dude you expect..the whole pumpkins comeback is a cash grab anyways..

all these 'reunion' tours are. god knows how much the police are going to make off this tour.

I don't begrudge anyone like the Pumpkins or Police making money - even lots of it. It's just that this marketing approach really blows more than most.

f...UHH...Ckk da Smazhing Pumpkins.


I mean cum on....we got pareallell threads on pushing the Fuck the Mainstream and you got this God damn ass shit at Target!!!!!


Am I the only one seeing the freagin shitstain on the underwaer here?!

There's a streak so long my mother can't get it out with Shout w/ Bleach.

@Out Out

i usually dont either, but this is what gets me about the pumpkins 'reunion'

billy/jiimmy failed with 'swan' (or however your spell it)...
bill failed as a solo artist..
billy failed as a poetry book writer...

so what does he do, gets jimmy back, gets two stage gimps and calls it smashing pumpkins? this is essentially what he tried to do the swan, but he's just riding the old name now..so i dont consider this SP at all...and i used to be a huge fan...

i guess he can do whatever he wants, but it isnt sincere in the slightest..and even if the orignal lineup got back together and still just went for money..at least people would be paying top dollar to see the real thing...

Im in ur Targatzz

[img]http://myspace.drewpydraws.com/halloween/pumpkin_ass.jpg[img]

Buyinz ur eggstruhhh trakzzzz

Fuk mi up da az

Im in ur Targatzz




Buynz ur eggsturuhs ex trakkzzz

TEH WORLD IZ A VAMPIRE!!

@thepaniclift: now that you point it out that way, yeah, that's lame. At least the Police, it's the original three (well, ignoring Henry) - not Stewart, Andy and, er, Sam or something...

Store-specific releases are YEARS old.

Fight the power, just fight the RIGHT power.

I read about half of that. It's completely insane. With all due respect, I am on Out Out's and Tommy's position on the d/l stuff.

Please boycott their shows (if there are actually any fans here?). I mean really, how can anyone take this seriously?

You know what's funny is now people across the board think it's OK(nevermind their back round or where they came from) to be a greedy prick. First the NIN stuff and now this. Folks you'd think would have some amount of business ethics and morals left- no matter what are now on the shitlist. And let me tell you this is not just in relation to famous people. It seems like I see this kind of shit everywhere, in all aspects of life. I don't mean to say there isn't a soul left that gives a fuck- but there seems to be a pretty big divide in society between greedy assholes that want the world on their popsicle stick NOW and those of us that have had enough of this and want OUT. Into something a bit more level headed and just.

Ok, so that was a pretty lose rant, but that was my reaction when I read this.

-E

Jesus. Really, I can see why "independent" music is dying. Sometimes I'm glad.

@Died 1127 in Ilbenstadt -You FAIL at teh macroz!

Jumping to conclusions much?

lol. Ya, I always thought it was a joke when the "indie music revolution" started happening 7 or 8 years ago. I didn't believe it would work even then for most musicians (although the advertisers/media that prey on musicians sure wanted to convince you otherwise!) simply because there were already too many bands, to much crappy music, and not enough interested fans because of the major's idiotic policies. Not to mention the general trends in society toward mass consumable garbage in all fields of entertainment...which by the way, in case you for forgot is not art:-)

-E

I'm not even much of a Pumpkins fan, so don't take it this way, but you really think this is Billy's idea? With all the tie-ins to individual stores, this is purely a label idea. Now of course Billy coulda vetoed it, so the blame goes on him there for not even caring about the continuity of his own ALBUM (when the rest of us REAL artists agonize for months over what order to put the goddamn tracks in!), but I doubt this was his masterplan or anything. He's just being neglegent.

With the amount of money at stake that the label could make with Billy rehashing the Pumpkins name, he's certainly in the position to veto such an idea. And he obviously didn't. Bleechh. So, negligent, sure, I'd agree he's negligent. And complicit.

@ lodge of soil

I love AT-AT's. So obviously impractical, but so cool nonetheless.

As for different versions/art for the same release; Well, I think back to some early Front 242 Releases (Prior to Sony), a U.S. Cover would look different than a Belgian release.
I had no problem with that because it was a different label, licensed for a different territory. Just made for good collecting.

However, in this case (Smashing (CD) Pumpkins)... they are only out to screw us all... screw them and Billy! As Out Out says, he could have said "No!".

I'm a bit confused at all the anger in this thread... First off, what does the RIAA have to do with any of this... Second off, since when is offering additional content considered a dick move?

I can understand that everyone would want their record to have all of the bonus tracks - but does having only 1 or not having any bonus tracks suddenly make the record a rip off? And while I am sure it is not lost on the record company that some fans might "Collect them all" I have to assume this bonus track strategy is in play much more to help get the Pumpkins strong support at big box retail than any nefarious motive...

In the Record Label - Retailer relationship, it is the stores who hold the strong hand and most of the power.

I asked the same thing... the RIAA doesn't seem directly linked.

But it's how the 'additional content' is being offered that's so shitty. It's so obviously a money grab ploy. Fans who pay for music deserve better. Sure, it gives these retailers incentive to do special promotion, but so what? It's still a ploy to get people to buy the damn thing 3 or 4 times. Laaaame.

Oh, and it's not additional content. That would be somthing that one could purchase in addition to the main purchase. This content requires multiple main purchases. Gouging, to put it another way.

Ok, so by RIAA I meant Billy's label, I was being lazy so what wanna fight about it???

Fight? Naaahh... :)

I'd say the RIAA has a lot to do with it, since the members of the RIAA are the labels that artists like Smashing Pumpkins are signed to and are financed by.

Do you really think this deal is Billy's idea? I highly doubt it. This is a marketing and sales ploy. This is something thought up of in morning meetings in a high rise, not hashed out poolside by some rockstar/performer. This has contracts and bonuses written all over it. And it has beancounter stench in the binding.

You know why "independant" artist/labels "fail"? Capitol and beancounters. Not enough of either one.

@daq: of course, you're right about the majors and the RIAA. And beancounter stench. And palm-greasing. Backslapping, too...

But I still believe Billy had to have some say.

I r smrt.

@Out Out: Really? Considering his last 2 projects failed, I suspect that's weakened his position and status at the labels. Thus, he probably had to sacrifice something in order to retain artistic control. I'll bet this is that sacrifice...

Considering his last 2 projects failed, I suspect that's weakened...

also motive for him to go along with this idea, no? 4x sales seems pretty good, and this is his final strike at relevance, no? he needs these fake sales as much as his backers do.

and in what context is "artistic control" important when you are letting someone else decide what tracks go on which version of the album sold through what store? that does not sound like "artistic control" to me.

as one of the lined artices states, the title track is now a target exclusive...

Well, he's milking a brand name again. The last two projects weren't the Smashing Pumpkins. That puts some clout back in his corner. Besides, to think that he isn't in any position to object is just silly. He could maintain some artistic, nay, even human, integrity and say no. Walk away. But obviously not. I'd love to hear his side, uncoached or edited. Maybe, just maybe I could be convinced somehow that he thinks this is something other than a complete milking and bilking of his fans.

And again, with shit like this going on, regardless of who's idea or consent it is, is one of the reasons why fans these days don't think they should have to pay for music, 'cause 'the man' is merely trying to suck their wallets dry. No wonder. Sadly, it affects all musicians and labels when the greedy ones pull shit like this.


@daq: you made me think of Homer Simpson's line "I am so smart. S-M-R-T." :)

And again, once bad example is going to justify an unnumbered mass of people downloading their favourite releases left and right.

Give it an RIAA tag, so that everybody knows its cool to steal from us.

Well, not for long, and I am SO out of here....

Stefan

@Stefan: as you know, you've got my complete agreement. And am sorry to see you leavin'.

Um, isnt this what Funker Vogt did? Funker Vogt released the standard European jewel case one, the European special edition with bonus dvd and extra songs on disc one, and the metropolis 2 disc one with exclusive tracks. And I happily bought two of the three.

Bonus DVD and Extra Songs and Exclusive Tracks. Still a little bit milking the collector, but far less aggregious than one extra track sold at one store, one sold at another, and so on. Otherwise the same record. Big difference to me.

@ Stefan

Not sure who implied it would be OK to steal it?? I am in agreement as well...Don't like it, then don't buy it! No excuse for theft!

@xenocanon

It's just like my Front 242 example. The difference is that they are released on different labels in different territories. (I too purchased both versions :] )

Not that anyone needed to imply that it's okay to steal it (or the bonus tracks or whatever) but that it's simply, patently, obviously a complete excuse for folks to justify doing so. That is, fans feeling like they're being coerced/pushed/strongarmed into buying the record three times to get all the songs might feel entitled to simply 'go get them online' instead. Not that I approve or condone such actions in the least, but it sure feels like "the man" sticking it to the fans, and fans love excuses to "stick it to the man".

@ Out Out

You bring up a good point. I wonder if the various "bonus" tracks are available via iTunes (or wherever)?
well... I really don't care, I am not about to go pick them up anyway. :)

One of the tracks is exclusiveto iTunes. The exclusive from Best Buy and Target are not on the iTunes version. See how 'engineered' this money grab attempt is? :\

And again, this makes it a good excuse for people to "stick it to the man" - and that's where all bands (at least on labels - even their own) get fucked by greedy shit like this - the average "stick it to the man" based downloader doesn't nessesarily know a lame greedy corporate label from an artist-supportive one. "Shit, haven't you heard? Radio Valkyrie Records is [i]totally screwing Out Out! Fuck them - they don't pay their artists anyway, so I'm gonna stick it to them and download "Virtual Sound Images" from Demonoid."[/i] Seriously. Many downloaders just lump all labels together like that. I've read that kinda crap on pro-downloading threads more than I care to. Ig-nor-ant.

so much for my carefully placed italics. :(

@xenocannon: I meant to say that if there's big differences in content like the FV stuff, then I too buy multiples. I love having different versions if the differences are decent and significant.

>>@ Stefan
>>
>>Not sure who implied it would be OK to steal it??


Well, nobody really implied that, but since the text starting the thread comes up with this fast generlaization,

" Seriously, the music industry is just like the professional wrestling industry anymore, run by absolute complete morons."

although, I and nobody I know in the recording industry has made that decision, I feel it is going to be used for an equally generalized approach to obtain music.

If you are really pissed at thisrelease strategy, feel free to blame:


- The US LAbel's marketing person
- The US label's A&R person
- The US labels president.
- The Smashing Pumpkins themselves

Dont buy that reocrd. dont eeven share it. Dont even talk about it, if you hate that strategy. But dont take it out on others.

And. understand that lines like these here
" Seriously, the music industry is just like the professional wrestling industry anymore, run by absolute complete morons."

Are generalizing an entire industry and give an underhanded justification to steal music in general. But that does not help the problem. Punish bad marketing strategies. Punish the bands and the labels that come up with thoise strategies. But keep supporting the bands and labels that dont ull that kind of shit. by making hasty generalizations, you will erase the differences between labels and band's attitudes instead if highlighting them.

Stefan

I knew a chick that used to be tight with Billy in the early days.

Based on her opinions about him, it's pretty much the classic story of how too much success can be bad for your soul.

@ Stefan,

That is exactly my view. The dis-info campaign to make everything black and white regarding the music industry is a sham, and it comes from larger developments in the economy and society. These ideas are getting handed down from the highest orders of gov't and media and the developements of the last decade are aloft to kill off the smaller artists and labels(and many more), because they are also a source of disent. The establishment doesn't want disent in any form. Art and music has been a voice of disent for ages. For the first time they have a system in place that basically kills the independent voice- at the very least, the smaller voice. If you don't see this you are blind to the obvious, have not ever been in the game, or have not done the nessessary research. It's all connected.

-E

@Absolute & Stefan: very, very well said!

Unfortunately those smart remarks always end uüp at the end of each individual threads and are usually never read by any of the million people that just glance over it and have found another justification to check out the new torrents....

Stefan

Yes. But at least they're there for those who care to actually stop and think a little. (My pessimism says that's a teensy minority.)

(My pessimism says that's a teensy minority.)

You could be right. That is actually what worries me about the internet. I am an insider to the music industry, and if I see how much wrong information about it is spread and commonly accepted by the majority without a hint of a grain of salt, then I start to worry about the "quality of information" process in general.

And this is actually not about the music industry at all or even music. But most people do seem to prefer "simple lies" over a complicated truth. And the truth is mostly complicated.

regards,

Stefan

Yes, again. It's easier to accept somthing because "it's what everyone says is true" rather than stop and think logically about what one hears and reads. If people stopped even for a flicker of a moment when getting a piece of information and asked themselves the simple question "does that really make sense" they'd likely find the answer to be "no, that's not logical at all" to be a common one.
And it's not just "truths" about the music industry, as you say. In fact, the shit going on with music now is a scary barometer, a yardstick, of how people look at all aspects of the world around them. Accepting things as "truth" when more often than not it's political agenda-driven PR spin to get the great unwashed masses to believe what they want. And they buy it hook line and fucking sinker.

Shit, even things like Wikipedia (as cool as it can be) is not truth by fact, but truth by consensus. And consensus isn't always right.
(For a while, the (barely) majority of the US supported the "president" in this bullshit Iraq war. Guess what? The supporters are now in the small minority. Why? Not because the truth got through to them - nope, it's because they don't see their taxes going down, gas prices are high, and they don't see anything coming of it for them. Narrow minded fucks. But I digress, as I usually have a 'no-politics' policy - especially on a music forum...)

...and the only reason I relegate my online bitching predominantly to music is twofold: One, It's my life, this music stuff, and the lives of many, many people around me. It's like we eat and breathe it. Two: if I got into bitching about politics my blood pressure would skyrocket and I'd likely fall ill as a result. So I keep my political activism generally quiter, more close to the vest, doing email letter writing and phone calls to my representatives. Quiet, but not silent.

"A person is smart; people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it." - 'Men In Black'

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." -George Carlin

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with the above quotations. Some days, they're my mantras, lest i go crazy with the idiocy around me.