dont you need a scene for wave/gothic before you have a festival for it?

SF, Chicago, or Dallas.

Guesses.

Are you kidding this is America, if you show us anything we will waste our money on it. Grundge Rock and now Hardcore music devours the youth. There mommies and daddies give them the money and they waste it. What has the record companies in the US done NOTHING. Wax Trax could have taken over the scene in Chicago with crappy music if the owners didn't pass away. What has Metropolis done except sell out of any music coming from Germany/England or over seas nothing. COP has tried on the West coast but its to small of a company.

@ Apskaft Also I can get the same music you listen to cheaper over here than in your own country. So they are trying to get it over here some way it just doesn’t matter

Whole thing to Apskaft

@Apskaft

No Offense I just believe it is very possible if some chicken sh**s want to take a chance in the US. " Metropolis Records " its for the taking.

Did you just say Wax Trax released 'crappy music' ?

Yes sorry to say I did it. It was the only thing in the US I could think of but. KMFDM, Ministry, REVCO, Sister Machine Gun, Chris Connelly, Meat Beat Manifesto, and also FRONTLINE ASSEMBLY. Thanks they where pretty good. In there time

I did through in Grunge Rock any points??

Denver would be a great local for just about any kind of festival. Great city. You could also probably easily get VAC to play it...if you can get Bryan away from the latest RPG game.

Just kidding...kinda..

Yeah, Wax Trax did release alot of junk as well....people only remember the good stuff, but bid on some 99 cent Wax Trax cds on Ebay, you'll see.

Plus they wouldn't pick up Out Out. WTF!?

There is no way to match WGT, anywhere. There are festivals in the US, and the scene is getting better, but there is something about WGT that will never be recreated.

People come from all over the world, not just Europe, to go there, why would they come to the US for something thats just a shitty version of it?

Living in Germany I have to say that WGT is not the best onme this year when it comes to festivals.

It is interresting to see that a whole city (Leipzig) is filled with fairy tale creatures *joking* but the line - up this year did not convince me to be there this year:

4080 Peru (UK) - Accessory (D) - Agonoize (D) - All Gone Dead (UK) - All My Faith Lost (I) - Altera Forma (RUS) - Amber (D) - Analogue Brain (D) - And One (D) - Anubiz (D) - Apoptose (D) Bühnenpremiere - Ausgang (UK) - Bahntier (I) - Beborn Beton (D) - Beinhaus (D) - Blitzkid (USA) - Blood & Pain Fetishperformance Erotische Aufführung mit MOZART, MADELEINE LE ROY und dem wollüstigen Hofstaat - Bloodflowerz (D) - Bloodsucking Zombies From Outer Space (A) - Bloody Dead And Sexy (D) - Cantus Buranus (D) die orchestrale Vertonung von Texten aus der mittelalterlichen Handschrift der Carmina Burana von Corvus Corax - Cat Rapes Dog (S) - Catastrophe Ballet (D) - Cephalgy (D) - Chants Of Maldoror (I) - Charlotte's Shadow (IRL/E/D) - Clan Of Xymox (NL) - Claudia Graef; Axel Thielmann, Tilo Augsten (D) Horrorlesung - Combichrist (N) - Conrad Der Saitenreiche (D) - Culture Kultür (E) - Cultus Ferox (D) - Cumulo Nimbus (D) - Cyclotimia (RUS) - Dark Sanctuary (F) - Das Scheit (D) - Deadfly Ensemble (USA) Europapremiere - Deathstars (S) - Decoded Feedback (CDN) - Deine Lakaien (D) - Delight (PL) - Des Teufels Lockvögel (D) - Destroid (D) Projekt des Haujobb-Musikers Daniel Myer - Devils Kiss (D) - Dieter Müh (GB) - Diodati Classic (D) Lesung mit Klaviermusik - Division Kent (CH) - Donner & Doria (D) - Dope Stars Inc. (I) - Dracul (D) exklusiver Auftritt 2006 - Dryland (D) - Dunkelschön (D) - Dupont (S) - Echo West (D) - Eisheilig (D) - Eminence Of Darkness (D) - End Of Green (D) - Ensoph (I) - Eric Fish (D) - Fanoe (CH) - Feindflug (D) - Feuerschwanz (D) - Frozen Plasma (CH) - Garden Of Delight Feat. Lutherion (D) - Götterdämmerung (NL) - Genitorturers (USA) "Cirque du Risque" - Fetischaufführung - Glis (USA) - God Module (USA) - Gods Army (D) - Gothminister (N) - Gryffenhain (D) - Hatesex (USA) Weltpremiere - Heaven 17 (UK) - Hendrik Peeters, Antje Dieckmann, Marian Creutzburg (D) erotische Lesung - Illuminate (D) - Imperative Reaction (USA) Europapremiere - Implant (B) - In The Nursery (UK) - Iridio (I) - James Rays Gangwar (UK) - Katatonia (S) - Katzenjammer Kabarett (F) - Killing Miranda (UK) - Kirlian Camera (I) - La Casa Del Cid (D) - Lacrimas Profundere (D) - Lacrimosa (CH) - Land:Fire (D) - Limbogott (D) - Liv Kristine (N) Romantisches Nachtkonzert im Heidnischen Dorf - Lola Angst (D) - Love's Labour's Lost (D) - Lydia Lunch (UK) Neues Programm "Real Pornography" - Lyfthrasyr (D) - Maschinenkrieger KR52 vs. Disraptor (D) - Mesh (UK) - Metallspürhunde (CH) - Michigan (S) - Miquel And The Living Dead (PL) - Moi Dix Mois (J) - Naio Ssaion (SLO) - Necro Facility (S) - Neotek (DK) - Neutral (RUS) - Nitzer Ebb (UK) erstes Konzert zur Wiederzusammenführung weltweit - Nosferatu (UK) exklusiver Auftritt in Deutschland 2006 - Novy Svet (E/A) Deutschlandpremiere - O Quam Tristis (F) - Omnia (NL) - One Two (UK/D) Deutschlandpremiere, Paul Humphries und Claudia Brücken spielen die Schlager von OMD & PROPAGANDA - Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio (S) - Orplid (D) Weltpremiere - Oswald Henke (D) Lesung - Painbastard (D) - Parzival (RUS/DK) - Propergol (F) Weltpremiere - Proyecto Mirage (E) - Reaper (D) - Regicide (D) - Rosa Crux (F) - S.I.T.D. (D) - S.K.E.T. (D) - Salonorchester Weimar (D) Hänsel & Gretel Ein Schauermärchen - Saltatio Mortis (D) - Samael (CH) - Samsas Traum (D) - Scarlet's Remains (USA) - Schattenschlag (D) - Schelmish (D) - Schock (D) - Seelenthron (D) - Seelenzorn (D) - Silvery (D) - Soko Friedhof (D) Weltbühnenpremiere - Solitary Experiments (D) - Sonar (B) - Songs Of Lemuria Feat. Nik Page (D) - Sono (D) - Spiritual Front (I) - Superikone (D) - Tactical Sekt (UK) - Tanzwut (D) - The 3 Cold Men (BR/F) Europapremiere - The Breath Of Life (B) - The Dreamside (NL) - The Gathering (NL) - The House Of Usher (D) - The Last Dance (USA) - The Legendary Pink Dots (NL) 25 jähriges Jubiläum - The Old Dead Tree (F) - The Other (D) - The Pain Machinery (S) - The Protagonist (S) - The Spook (D) - The Spookshow (S) - The Twins (D) - Theatre Of Tragedy (N) - Theatres Des Vampires (I) - Tragic Black (USA) - Trial (D) - Unheilig (D) - Valeria (MEX) - Van Band (PL) - Van Langen (D) - Vigilante (RCH) Europapremiere - Violent Entity (USA) Europapremiere - Vive La Fete (B) - Vivus Temporis (D) - VNV Nation (UK) - Voices Of Masada (UK) - Weto (D) - Winterkälte (D) - Witt (D) - Wolgemut (D) - Xandria (D) - x** (I) - Y-Luk-O (D) - Zeitgeist Zero (UK) Europapremiere -

There are a some good bands there (e.g. Destroid, Decoded Feedback, Accessory) but all in all not enough for my taste to travel to eastern Germany.

I guess I prefer to see Nitzer Ebb on a regular tour than just on a festival, same goes for Front Line Assembly (Mera Luna).

Denver would be a good choice I think from what i've seen of it.

There are plenty of smaller fest-- Convergence, Black Sun, Dark Arts, Reverence, Providence Noise Fest, but the $$$ it takes to put one together is significant, especially when you're dealing with a) Flying bands in from anywhere, but I'll assume a bunch from Europe. Many bands playing WGT simply have to DRIVE there, and that's not an option for most in a country the size of America, b) Getting a venue "WGT" size, which in all honesty won't get filled.

The biggest fest is probably Convergence, and that changes cities every year, and that gets 2-3000 tops (which, btw, is quite good).

Many of these fests are stable financially now, so the good thing is that they can build. Getting something that has 15k people at it is going to need close to a miracle though.

Eurotic, but WGT isnt at one venue, its at like 15 venues, and 3 or 4 clubs spread across the whole city. You will never find a city in the US willing to do that. Not to mention with the WGT wristband you get free train rides. Like Denver would allow that,

ah, never been there but that's an even BIGGER hurdle then.

Maybe take over Aspen and turn all the movie theaters into clubs for a weekend.

yeah, we're screwed:)

The problem with setting up something like WGT in America is America is just too damn BIG.

I think even taking the whole of Europe in account as far as landmass goes, its still nowhere near what America is. And the concentrated density of Europe and its population means mass transit systems are very simple to set up and maintain efficiently. It's relatively easy for Europeans to get to WGT from all points on the continent if they want to.

If you had a giant festival in America, where would you have it at that would be easily accessible? How would everyone get there? The logistics would be a nightmare. And that's not even taking into account whether anyone would show up.

"if you had a giant festival in america, where would you have it that would be easily accessible"

Somewhere right in the middle, how about Arkansas?

Rivetmike

<ob coastal flamebait>

To be honest, its better just to do it where the "normal" people are.. One on the west coast aka coachellaesque and one on the NE corridor (btwn DC and boston). That gets practically everyone.. the middle isn't dense enough and besides we are disowning the "red" states, which means they have to do their own thing :)

</ob coastal flamebait>

Nothing that big will ever happen here for the goth/industrial scene. The closest we'll get is Coachella.

I was joking about Arkansas btw...

Rivetmike

I would suggest Alaska or as an alternative Hawaii ;-)

I say Austin Texas... the self proclaimed "LIVE MUSIC CAPITAL OF THE WORLD"
Also home to the oh so popular "SXSW Muisc/Film Fest", "Austin City Limits" , etc...
Austin is VERY music/artist friendly... even provides grants & funding to anyone that will start music related business in Austin.
Not to mention... Austin is pretty much in the center of the US... just south a bit. :)

If anyone else would be intested in putting something together, let me know.

NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!!!


can you imagine ORGANINZING all the work visa's for 200 BANDS!!!!

as well as finding a city that has 15-20 DIFFERENT venues at your disposal (10,000 capacity and down) with transit, camping and hotel facilities for 15-25,000 people ???!??!


ummm yeah.
Good luck with that:)

Quewhy

Austin can... see this.
http://2006.sxsw.com/music/showcases/date/2006-03-15.html

Not to mention the first dew years would prob. not draw that namy artists/people.

Quewhy

Austin can... see this.
http://2006.sxsw.com/music/showcases/date/2006-03-15.html

Not to mention the first few years would prob. not draw that namy artists/people.

Granted... most of the bands that participate in SXSW are from the US... but did have quite a few from Japan, GB, Australia, etc...

yes, this sounds like a great idea! let's fly in covenant, and and one, icon of coil, mesh, maybe melotron and beborn beton, maybe TOY... hey and let's have it in toronto, extremely metropolitan city close to NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc.

oh wait someone tried that and lost FORTY THOUSAND DOLLARS

http://www.synthpopgoestheworld.com

trust me, spend the $800 to book a round trip ticket to leipzig and go see how huge and enormous WGT is, realize the infrastructure and attendance involved, and then you'll quickly understand the 10522395034321321 reasons why it would never work in the US

also fyi, i live in austin, and SXSW is a totally different beast. there is a HUGE indie rock scene in america, and SXSW is just a reflection of that. it's also an industry convention, so they make lots of money off of charging big record labels $800 a head to sent their employees with platinum badges

I would love to... need tp get my citiznship papers/passport first...

Then again... I am sure it started small. Yes, most the the "big" names are from the EU and would never show.
So what? We are stuck with lalapalooza?

Drchop
Yeah... I know.. I live in Austin as well (...actually, Pf-ville)
I am just using it as an example. A city that is willing to support...
Will a festival reach the size and popularity of WGT in the US... I really doubt it.
However, if the US had the orginzed following, devotion and support they do over there... we could, over time.

Oh... I attended sxsw this year. It's a shame there were not more electronic bands.
Some of the industry people I talked to told me "give it time"... we will see more and more diversity in comming years. Moving away from it's "roots".

also need to pass the "spelling test" before they give me US citizenship... it's obvious I have some issues with that. (also this damn Sun keyboard)

There is a "spelling test" for US citizenship? What? I didn't think you even needed to speak english?

you aren't accidentally applying to be a citizen of the republic of texas are you? :)

HAHA... no, just kidding, No "spelling test".
Actually, I lucked out. I qualified through military service so not tests or fees.

One thing that needs to be kept in mind is that WGT has been going for 15 years now. I don't know what the first few years attendance was like, but I'm guessing it wasn't anywhere near what it has been in the last few years. It takes time for these things to grow, and I don't think we'll see anything on par with WGT in the US anytime soon, if ever (also taking into consideration the many other reasons people have listed).

Geisttanz
Exactly was I was trying to say... would take a few years to get going. I am sure there are enough bands in the US that would love the exposure.

black sun does at least look pretty decent though

but nothing like wgt but still decent

Hm...this was before I got on side-line forums. I would have to say that if anything like this was in Denver it would have had of been a couple years ago when our city was thriving. I guess now we have some stuff but nothing mind blowing, and as per usual everyone that runs this sh*t is fighting about something or someone.
So as a promoter, I'd say if anyone was gonna do their own little WGT in the States that it would have to be somewhere like San Fran, NYC, Chicago, Detroit or Seattle.
Denver needs some repairs right now, I'm not trying to be negative about our little town or anything but getting anything to function right now would be problematic. Give it a couple years for us to straighten our shit out, maybe get some new blood running something.
I would have to sy though that the amount of talent that is exploding from our wayward city is brilliant! I haven't heard such good tunes from our little city in years.
like:
www.myspace.com/entartetemusik - Die Brucke
www.myspace.com/tristraum
www.myspace.com/pentalith
www.myspace.com/thenewwaveforms
www.myspace.com/torso
www.myspace.com/obcission
www.myspace.com/thesirenproject
www.myspace.com/novemberprocess
www.myspace.com/hollywoodsexnvegas - seraphim shock

and so on...

as for VAC playing live...well...Bryan is awesome for sure. But he needs to find people to play with him live that he can trust. we know he's had hard times in the past and so he's trying to cover his own butt.
There have been many many options for him over the years, as a pro artist he wants to be able to put on a good show without having to worry about certain things that distract from a bandmates performance. I'm not VACs rep or anything, that's just what I have gotton from speaking with him.

among other things we are working on getting Colorado Dark Arts back together for Memorial Day weekend 08. We are expanding and trying to fix the little issues we had before- thus the reason 07 was void.

well, i'm done ranting. Happy Holidays Everyone,
Alyx Webb

impossible, but if someone tried it would have to be in austin, probally around 6th street, since there are multiple clubs in extremly close radius..tho i doubt most of them would be willing to change format for a weekend..

Is that you Fluid?

We have The Church, Shelter, and Vinyl on the same block almostr in this high dollar area called 'the golden triangle.' plus we have the cafe...
has Austin hosted Convergence yet? we tried to host but our bid didn't go through or something....that would be the best way to figure it out.
Check the numbers on the Convergence shows in each town.
Though I do agree Austin seems like it would be a good town...

alyx

Even though not technically in the states Montreal has been the place for several years now... with COMA in the past and Kinetik coming up this year... This is like WGT in North America. What else can you ask for ?

It's odd when you think of destinations before you die and where you'd like to go and these festivals come to mind...lol. We are an odd bunch : )
COMA, WGT, Black Sun, that one in Leipzig...I mean seriously, all destinations that are desiredby gothic community members.

I <3 this.

Bring it to Chicago, and while you're at it, start Wax Trax II.


Or, move it from city to city each year.

That way, everyone's happy.


But please, do bring back Wax Trax II.


Need more wax.

Is Montreal really so desired by the Gothic crowd ? I didn't know. The real Goth scene is extremely small here.

Wax Trax II?

You mean http://www.wtiirecords.com/?

@ELECTROHEAD
WGT is more than just a lineup. It's a festival for the entire scene. It's the five days of the year where I'm 100% in my natural element. Listening to the music you like, hanging out with cool people from all over the world, making fun of poser goths. Clubbing EVERY night on a -packed- EBM dance floor! (that's something that happens like once every three months here if we're lucky)
Even if the quality of the lineup varies, it's always (to me) better than any other non-scene-related European festival. Besides, it's by far the LARGEST scene related lineup, and when you've seen basically all the big names, a large number of smaller names is much more interesting to me.

@DJTeKslave

It's much bigger than the "scene" here in Toronto. Just got back from a new weekly ebm type of night event and there were maybe 10 people at this place. Mind you, it is a Thursday night but that's besides the point. Drinks were 1.50$ before 11!!!! When I visited my friend in Montreal, the club we went to was packed.

If you manage to turn NYC into an industrial freak fest, then I'll come :D

BTW, I'm going to WGT this year and if there isn't an official side-line meeting this year I'll start using expletives :)

Let's just meet up in the moshpit.

@Malfunct: I'll be there..is it time for a wgt08 thread? Though are you sure a WGT SL meetup is a good idea?

Meeting up in the moshpit would work for Sumez and I :)

@Virul3nt: Of course it's too early, but people skip the meeting and I was pissed off. This time we're meeting in a lobby and hanging out together at least for one night. :) And yeah, I'm sure it's a great idea!

are you sure a WGT SL meetup is a good idea?
If fluid and Psychopomp are there, I will certainly show up

I too think Austin would be the ideal place for something like this.

Germany/Europe= short travel distances
US/North America = Loong travel distances

If someone can pull it off, I would be very impressed.
Would be a great thing for the scene here.

Hello... look at Kinetik in Montreal... they have Feindflug, why would you locate a festival in another place ?

Montreal gets COMA...

For that alone I am jealous.

Hmm yeah until last year... now it's Kinetik.

synthpop goes the world was great! yeah sux lazarus lost so much money on it. i heard funhaus is also closing down in toronto.

kinetik festival does look like it has an awesome lineup, i just might have to go to that.

but yeah any of the festivals i've been to in the US have had only a few hundred people in attendance, whereas WGT is on a way larger scale.

Infest (UK) last year sold out for the first time since it started 10 years ago. It takes time for these festivals to gain a reputation. It does help that the organisers are professional.

it's not WGT, but for north america it's not too bad :)
for people in north america here's a new festival, In Montreal Canada (from some of the members of COMA)

Festival Kinetik
May 15.16.17 2008

Line up :
Phase 1 // Electro // Thursday May 15 // Usine C

Nitzer Ebb
Ascii Disko
The Horrorist

+ Dj Mini

Doors 7:00 PM to 1:00 AM // 18+

Phase 2 // Industrial // Friday May 16 // Usine C

Funker Vogt
Rabia Sorda
Kiew
Noisuf-X
Headscan
Distorted Memory
Memmaker
Synnack
Cenotype

+ Dj Kaotik
+ Dj Rev.John
+ Dj Shivar
+ Dj Blackpaps

Doors 6:00 PM to 3:00 AM // 18+

Phase 3 // Noise // Saturday May 17 // Usine C

Feindflug
Sonar
This Morn' Omina
Xotox
Empusae
Mono No Aware
Terrorfakt
Iszoloscope
Displacer
Tonikom
Sorehead
PerfectionPlastic
Lommeloire

+ Dj Salt
+ Dj Peter Lee
+ Dj`s Pathogen, Sprite, Weird Sketch
+ Dj Leslie
+ Dj Razorgrrl

Doors 3:00 PM to 3:00 AM // 18+

Phase 4 // Hardcore // Saturday May 17 // Theatre Sans Fil

The Dj Producer
The Outside Agency
Manu Le Malin
Dj Satronica

+ Fishead
+ Dj Mutante
+ NA
+ Dark Alakazoo

Doors 10:00 PM to 9:00 AM // 16+

for more info:
Festival Kinetik Website

I think Portland, Oregon is another place like Denver that would be a perfect setting for a big festival of this type in the US.

One big advantage is free transportation within the city and an ample supply of great venues/bars.

I personally think that being surrounded by 40,000 goths sounds like my idea of Hell, but hey, that's just me. :)

40,000 American goths...no less...

*ducks*

It's like Burning Man, except more fussy!

matt: that's one of the best things about the fest!

It's not all goths. There are also the really insane looking neofolk people and industrial cyber people. You see the craziest mfs in the world all in one city. It's basically like one giant amusement park.

And the city of Leipzig is amazing too with history and culture. I think that alone you can't equate it to any plausable US WGT city. Maybe if you could take over the WHOLE city of Chicago.

CE: I just don't see the appeal. I spend enough time associating with scene kids, going to another continent with the express interest of doing it more baffles me. Also neofolk people bore me. I've seen Schindler's List just like everyone else, doesn't mean I want to cosplay it.

Neofolk cosplay ftw !!! As much as I am a Neofolk completist, I must admit that it got old now...

@ Matt: If you havent been to WGT you cant understand it.

I felt the same way "yeah just more of the same magnified by 1000, whatever." But when youre there, and you see the sheer magnitude of it. Not to mention the fucking awesome DJs, bands and clubs that go until 8 or 9 in the morning. It really is the ultimate party. You meet new people and drink new alcohol you never knew existed. You sleep 3 or 4 hours a night for 4 days and have the best time of your life.

Man I cant wait. This year will be one for the record books.

Oh, and you can play "Last American Standing".... good times.

A Violent Emotion: Eh, I'll just go to that quiet little get-together in Montreal and drink alcohol I've come to know and love. I think I'll be happy settling.

matt: it's just something you cant explain but you have to experience for yourself. you don't get the same stupid "scene people" it's more like people who have to pay money for flights hotels and tickets so it certainly weeds out the "poseur" vampires who like to suck up the scene.

A Violent Emotion: Last American Standing is always fun. Last year I had a schnitzel in my pants!

matt: WGT and Montreal are 2 different beasts. You can't compare the two. In a way Kinetic fest may be better because at least everything is at the same venue and you wont miss any of the acts. The craziest part of WGT is figuring out what you want to see and when. But I'd refrain from saying one fest is better than the other. It's NOT a fair comparison.

Now why do we have to fly in EVERY European band on the planet to have a good festival?

Let's see...AMERICAN BANDS:

Cruxshadows
God Module
Cesium 137
Imperative Reaction
Combichirst
GenCab
Spanking Machine
Psyclon Nine
Dawn of Ashes
Cruciform Injection
The Azoic
Dismantled
W.A.S.T.E.
I:Scintilla
Vicious Alliance
Deadsy
CTRL
C/A/T
Razed in Black
Emilie Autumn
System Syn
Cynergy 67
Panzar AG
Snog
Terrorfakt
Stromkern
Caustic
Negative Format
Claire Voyant
Iris
Provision
Sleep Now Yes
Filament 38
Die Sektor


CANADA:
The Birthday MAssacre
Ayria
Headscan
Zombie Girl
Decoded Feedback

MEXICO:
Hocico
Amdusica

God knows there's tons more where that came from. America has just as much talent as Europe folks.

I say we start screw trying to get these eropean bands over here and get MORE american bands. It would be neat if Europeans started coming over HERE to see OUR festival.



www.Blacksun-festival.com

only in its 4th year and its getting bigger every year by leaps and bounds. its at least a start

Most of those bands tour the US on a regular basis. That is less of a reason to draw people to spend money on airfare and hotel when they can just wait for the band to hit their city on the next tour.

Hey, FUCK YOU CANADA!


You're like a perfect child of Europe, while we're the bad boys :(

FUCK YOU. Just FOAD :(

I'm stuck in this country where nothing cool happens >.<

As long as you have a passport you're welcome here anytime eheh...

By the way we just received 50cm of snow in less than 24 hours... Still interested ?

All those US artists and ya leave out one of the ones in this discussion...how dare you. ;-)

Blacksun has a great lineup for next year...but connecticut is a loooong way from california so you can see why the size of the US could be a problem for the festival.

Why not a two-parter? One east coast and one west coast "event?"
I know a handful of bands (like Laibach) have done this sort of thing. Then US fans can find the cheaper flight/easier drive to get to the one closest.

As far as band playing SXSW, do they get paid? I always thought that was more of an "exposure" thing. I never asked them, but i've had friends in bands that played SXSW and they usually did a tour before and/or after to make some actual cash.

WGT has normally 150-175 bands. And no, theyre not all European. And theyre not all industrial.

This isnt about that there are no good N American bands, its that the scale WGT exists on, and the fact that it covers every niche of dark music (except metal, unfortunately).

Your schedule comes with a giant 4 page map of the city with over 20 venues and the tram/bus routes to get to them all.

If youre happier in Canada, be my guest. ;)

drink new alcohol you never knew existed
<3

I really need to join in on Last American Standing next year, though it'd obviously be hard for me to win that one.
Can't take the bus tuesday morning/night as usual then, though. :(

Well I might as well add
That you might want to check out this website for more info on WGT
http://www.sadgoth.com

Mark

I'd love to see a big OUTDOOR 2-3 day German styled outdoor EBM/electronic/powernoise/synthpop festival in America some day.

That Kinetik festival looks glorious...Nitzer Ebb, Funker Vogt, Feindflug, Noisuf-X, etc. Damn

Last time Canada had something that big was 2002's "Synthpop Goes the World".

But yeah, for years I've been dreaming of a Zillo/EuroRock/Doomsday/Mera Luna/WGT/Dark Castle event in the US of A.

My vision would be to have all forms of electronic represented...the Grendel, Tactical Sekt, Hocico side...the Feindflug, X-RX, Soman vocalless stuff, the VNV, And One, Covenent stuff, the Freezepop and Miss Kitten stuff, and the experimental as well as DJ trance and electronica, drum and bass, etc stuff.

Well one can keep dreaming:)

My last American Standing post disappeared. Weird.

But Sumez, youre Danish, how can you play "Last American Standing"? We would need to alter the games rules in some way. Maybe, last Caucasian standing. But that would be racist and there are some really cool Mexicans at WGT. Not many Japanese, I saw some in 2006 but they didnt talk to me.

Hmm.. Im open to ideas.

Cervello: I dont remember Schnitzel in your pants, I just remember singing a Kiew song to the guy from Kiew and not shutting up about the sauce.

Oh, and the potluck everyone threw in on for me to get a grill. It ended up being 20 euros, definitely not enough for a grill.

And lastly, you cant call bands that relocate to the US a US band. Combichrist is not a US band, just like Taktical Sekt is not a European band. Hocico isnt a German band now, and Im not an Austrian band. ;)

I might not be American, but I'm pretty good at standing.

@DJTeKslave

Yeah, sure, we got over 6 inches of snow this past Saturday. No biggie. Made driving a bitch.

You Canucks and your metric style :|

Think you're different -_-

I think America has the potential to have a really, really great festival. Now someone needs to do something about it.

The disadvantages of having a WGT-like festival in the US...

You can't drink alcohol outside or smoke inside or certain venues even in the same city have particular rules. In Germany anything really goes, you just cant' bring your own booze IN the venues.

little or no press(in Europe thare are ACTUAL magazines in magazine stands with bands of this type of music promoting the scene and festivals)

Expensive airfare(the days of cheap tickets on jetblue are over and Europe actually has cheaper fares WITHIN Europe on low cost carriers like 10 euro flights on Germanwings)

Very few large cities have areas within reasonable transportation distance for camp sites. I large portion of WGT goers actually camp out.

Parties end at 4am the very latest, some cities 2am or earlier. In Germany some parties end at 8am the following morning.

Half the promoters "in this scene" are either poor, unreliable, or riddled with drama so they're barely trying to keep their local night afloat, or they make promises they can't keep to staff/bands, or they always seem to be in stiff competition with each other so there's no unity to make things work.

80% of The United States are Christian. Havging the fest at a big city like New York or Los Angeles are definately out of the question for practical reasons so the fest would have to be in a smaller city like Denver which I guarantee you they will not be as accepting as the city of Leipzig to 20,000 plus goth/industrial/neofolk people.

You can't drink outside in USA? That's REALLY fucked up.

But why would parties end at 4am? For a festival you'd usually party longer than usual, because of the large amount of people. Ever been to a trance party ending at 4am? That sounds like a joke.

Ohhh, and Cervello, dont forget the 21+ drinking age. In most European countries you only have to be 16 to drink and smoke.

Imagine trying to find enough all ages venues, and card everyone who enters each of the 20 venues and then enforce than the ones who arent 21 dont drink. Christ, how many wristbands would that entail? I usually leave WGT with 4 or 5 wristbands as it is.

The logistics of doing this in the US sucks, Im sorry to say. And if you did it outside the US in CA or MX everyone would bitch that they have to convert their money.

Actually the age is 18 in Germany. That was so weird back in the days when I went there with my school class. We had to wait outside a dedicated liquor store for someone to buy us alcohol... In Denmark we didn't even have a drinking age until after I passed that age. :P (except serving at venues etc., of course)

I don't have a problem with converting my money when going to WGT.

No wait, actually it might be 16 in Germany... just remembered I was only like 14 when we went there.

Sumez: Most of those trance parties that end past 4am are illegal unless it's a private party. Depending on which city you are in a club will HAVE to stop serving booze from 2am to 4am. And since they don't sell booze everyone leaves.

Depending on the municipality, drinking alcohol outside isn't entirely prohibited in some cases. Most cities will have some kind of rules where, if an establishment gets some kind of permit, drinking will be permitted within a certain area around it. These areas are usually small, though. In rural areas, no one really cares, and even if there is some kind of a law, cops will usually ignore it. Its the cities you have to worry about. If the festival was out in the middle of nowhere ala Woodstock, and got all the necessary paperwork, it could probably be done. Big "if" though.

I think the acceptance factor is probably exaggerated. Having it in the backwoods of Alabama probably wouldn't be a good idea, but even a mid-sized city like Denver isn't going to have hordes of people wanting to burn rivetheads and goths at the stake. Some place like Austin wouldn't find 40000 freaks out of the ordinary at all. Or even do it near a college town.

As far as getting people from all over the world to come, at least right now, the exchange rate would probably work to the promoters' advantage, since it's really cheap for foreigners to come for America (of course, the hassle of getting through customs is still a problem).

I agree with the other logistical concerns.

for foreigners to come for America

come *to* America....

Yes, Belgium, I know you can't be stopped.

WGT is nothing like woodstock. It's more like Goth Mardigras times 10 spread out over a city twice the size of downtown Austin.

I still say the media would have a hardon for this type of crowd (still bitching about Columbine nonsense)

It's not really safe to do something like this in the US.

To be realistic, you know.

I think the media thing is not an issue. The media loves to do the point-counterpoint presentation; I've been interviewed by local media in several different cities about how goth/industrial kids are mostly just a bunch of dorks with weird clothing who were picked on in high school, but mostly run the internet now and that's about as threatening as we get for the most part. Sure, the media would be all over it, but I doubt they'd sensationalize it and tell people to hide their children because the Satan worshipers are in town or something.

Anyway, festivals of mega-proportions do occur around the US. Case in point; Burning Man, which is deservedly notorious for the amount of drug use and other illicit activities that go on at it, yet every year it successfully petitions for the use of land controlled by the federal government. Obviously this is not the same thing as WGT at all, but it is a handy reference to counter the argument that American is too puritanical or whatever to host such an event.

matt: goth kids are usually ignored in small numbers... but 20,000 in one city? ie asshats protesting Manson concerts.

Also Burning man / Coachella are in the middle of nowhere. WGT is in a big city in Germany accessable to major airports/rail lines/highways.

And sure there are many big festivals that work here in the US... but they are not goth/industrial/noise/neofolk. Rock, Techno, and Trance will get a greater amount of people to warrent getting that land for the fest.

TBO oh and I was refering to people WITHIN the US trying to travel to whever the fest is. Believe it or not depending on where you are coming from it's cheaper to fly in from another country in Europe than domestically. People are playing 500 bucks to go to one coast from the other of the US.

No, dear God no! Soy Leeb must stay contained in Germany! Don't let it spread!!!!!

CE: Yeah, well, them's the breaks. I think you hit upon why I don't care if there's a WGT in the US. I think it's stupid when people blow absurd amounts of money to go to something just because it's scene-specific. Same reason I think Goth Cruise is stupid, it's like people can't go on a simple friggin' cruise without it being SPOOKEH. Same with Treffen, if I go to Germany (or Europe in general) it's going to be for the sights, not the sounds. The scene and the music just aren't important enough for me to plan my whole vacation around it. *shrug*

WGT is wonderful if you can do it. If you are can't fine there are some cool fests here that are popping up.

I just figured since you are interested in most of the bands playing at Kinetic you would also be interested in the same music that's at WGT. It's not as narrow as you think. Not sure who you've talked to but it's not really a "scene" party or fest. There's little to no backstage access other than bands. Nobody, that isn't foolish of course, goes to WGT just to be "seen" or score points.

My point is that if I'm going to spring for Europe, I'm going to spend my time rooting around Roman ruins rather than going to a festival. I've just got different priorities. Kinetik is a bit different being that I'm DJing at it, it's the only time I get to see my friends from the East Coast and I can drive to Montreal. Driving to Treffen would probably end badly.

@matt pathogen

How about doing both?

I completely understand the fact that you'd rather want to see Roman ruins. And so would I (well personally, I'd rather see my family). You know, historic places won't survive forever. They will fall apart someday.

And isn't is just cooler to tell your work mates about your recent trip to Europe where you saw Roman or Greek ruins instead of some gawf party around a watercooler at work?

Until the U.S. gets a proper national public transportation system, something like this is not easy for anyone in the US except those in the immediate surrounding area of the event.

@ Matt P: If you do make that drive I'd like to see the video of it, seems like it would make for interesting cinema...or at least a nice little 3 minute sped up YouTube video.

Matt: well aside from it being in Europe and the temptation to have a propper Euro vacation, your main beef with WGT is that it's scene specific? I don't think the fest is scene specific by far but...

You can say the same thing about Kinetic Fest which you are happily djing and attending unless they are offering you an absurd amount of money which you are COMPELLED to go but don't want to go.

It just goes back to what I was saying. You can't compare either one of those festivals it's not fair. They're both worth checking out for their own reasons.

Aside from the financial limitation for some people, I'd say everyone if given the chance should attend WGT just to experience it for themselves. It really is a unique thing.

I don't even know what we're arguing about at this point. :(

Maybe thats why the CT area festivals seem to be almost self sustainable.. those things have been going on for a bit, and the NE corridor amtrak gets a ton of proper sized cites (DC,philly,nyc, boston) and a ton of suburban stops along the way feeding each of those cities..

baltimore is on there too..

@Cervello
Sumez: Most of those trance parties that end past 4am are illegal unless it's a private party. Depending on which city you are in a club will HAVE to stop serving booze from 2am to 4am. And since they don't sell booze everyone leaves.

I can only say I'm really glad I don't live in your country :S

@Pathogen
I think it's stupid when people blow absurd amounts of money to go to something just because it's scene-specific. Same reason I think Goth Cruise is stupid, it's like people can't go on a simple friggin' cruise without it being SPOOKEH.

You obviously haven't been to WGT..
Also I can't wait for USA to get their WGT as well as a proper goth festival shooting. Screw school shootings.

we have poutine in montreal for Kinetik :P thats a major plus attraction hehe

and $ US = the same in $ Cad not like the euro that still go arround 1.50

Kao