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You've seen VNV Nation, Assemblage 23, Seabound and countless others cashing in on this easy and yet temporarily effective marketing trend, which some consider the nu metal of the electronic world. So listen up, grab your pens and start taking notes, and watch the cash start a flowing!
(1). You MUST harness only built in MIDI sounds on your keyboards. If we wanted to get technical and start using any complex like sound linking and external samples, we'd be playing industrial. Can't have any of that, folks, we're here to get the kids a-dancing us all the way to the bank! (2). You must be from Germany, this is nonnegotiable. If you're not from there, you MUST move there, even if you speak little to no German. Fame will find you there, even though the music overall is pretty unheard of there. (3). If you're not from Germany, you must also compensate for that fact with a German name, preferably with 'Welt' in the name. Any old German word added to that will work. Huhnwelt, Sheissenwelt, any of those will work. (4). The secret to the perfect Future Pop beat revealed: A. Set your drum machine to the loudest and thickest "Kick" or bass effect you can find, then turn the amps up to 11 ala Spinal Tap. B. Sequence the beats to go either at a 4/4 pattern, or time it to where it's either every second or every other second. C. Or you can use the ever-loved latter day Funker Vogt method and go with the same time pattern but substitute the pattern with a bass-snare effect. Boom-chucka-boom-chucka, woohoo! (5). Though you appear to dapper and over the top for the rave crowd to fully pick up on or to care about, you MUST extend your hand to the rave crowd at every concert. Forget goths even attend the show and buy your CDs, it's the rave crowd you one day hope to be drugging with one day. One day, when the market for this dies off, you'll be able to make like DJ Ronan and start appealing to the Fischerspooner and C+C Music Factory crowd. (6). You must have a DJ gig where you get paid 10x the amount the real DJs get paid. Refer again to DJ Ronan. You may owe your very existence to them and would be bagging groceries without them, but that doesn't mean you should let them have the money. You're the star, baby! (7). You must not be able to really sing, to make you sound genuine. A perfectly monotone voice is called for in this situation, to get to the core of the emotions. Can't let things like notes and octaves get in your way, that would take from either the "four to the floor" or epic aspect of your music. It also helps the authentic factor if you huff helium or hold your nose during the chorus, singing like Gonzo from Muppet Babies after a handfull of downers. Let the Deine Lakaiens last and keep an audience through quality song and singing, we're here to grab that quick buck while it's hot off the press. (8). No matter how many underage, overweight newbie psuedo-goth girls you may be banging backstage, you are in permanent isolation always! (9). You must read 1984 and quote it thoroughly. And then take those quotes, change a few words and make lyrics of them. That or Kazaam, you choose. And you MUST use the movie for it during live shows. (10). Tape a bunch of CNN and MSNBC and use it on screen during your live shows. If you don't get this in your area, tape Emeril Live or something and sample him going "Bam!". (11). You must have at least one song about machines and about nothing but machines. Your toaster is now a machine of walking bloodshed, my friend, harness it's pain! (12). Only use synth lines during the chorus and at no other time. And if it requires you to do more than hold down four keys at once a few times, then it's way too complicated. You're not Alan Wilder here or Cevin Key, we gotta keep it simple or people may get confused. (13). On those synthlines, reverb is your best friend! (14). Make sure that the synthlines are NEVER nearly as loud as the basslines. The beats are your bread and butter. Otherwise, you can get back to bagging groceries. (15). You must appear on at least 90 remixes per month, pumping out more remixes than original material. You're the star, charge them out the ass to get that sophisticated 4/4 beat of yours added to their song. (16). No matter what, NEVER hit that little button that plays "Little Brown Jug" or "It's Raining Men" instead of the pre-programmed song you set up. (17). During instrumentals, you get rid of the synths and drums and hop on your laptops. Just hit the buttons and make it look like you're doing something. Take care of your taxes, look up porn, play on the Fark forums, they'll go nuts for it as long as you have some light visuals on. (18). Sing those love songs like Apoptygma Berserk, be sweet and sing along to Kylie Monogue tunes. Be the ultimate lover man on CD, then the god of all pricks in person. Don't sign autographs or talk, keep a mean sneer on your face as your past dignity is wiped clean. If they pass you a pen and CD, give em a good sucker punch. Read up on Oasis for more info on this, it'll help you alot in your relationships with the fans. (19). Love songs and lots of them if you don't know much about world events! You've either gotta be singing about how much you hate the war in Iraq or you gotta sing Clay Aiken covers. Either way, you're getting laid tonight, my friend. (20). You must wear uber-German all black getups ala a gothed up Devo. Especially if you're not German. (21). When someone calls you Future Pop, you MUST divert their attention and tell them you are EBM. Or trance, depending on which way you wanna go. (22). When they ask you your influences, you must at all costs never name bands. You must tell them you are driven by (insert Snog subject matter here done alot less cleverly) I dunno, human greed, consumerism, Greenpeace, David Letterman's toupee, kids seeing monkeys get it on at the zoo, etc. (23). You must live in a large German city like Berlin or Hamburg, yet sing songs about how much you hate industrialization and large cities. You may love having that 7-11 around the corner, but you're a caveman at heart. (24). You must show your whole 10 words of German in interviews. Recite one witty Bavarian maxim over and over again until you get it right, soldier! (25). You MUST have at least one really slow, lighter-holding anthem on your CD about something or other of how "you feel the pain". (26). You must own a Waldorf and forget about the keys outside of the presets. If ain't a preset, it's not music in Future Pop. (27). In your bio, above all, you must emphasize how you're going to take over the dance floor. Blah Blah emotion blah blah heart..........WE'RE GONNA TAKE OVER THE DANCEFLOOR AND MAKE YOU SHAKE YOUR BOOTY WHILE SOBBING! (28). If you can listen to it at home and not the club, get back to bagging groceries. (29). As soon as your CD sales exceed 2,000 over a few years, get a rock star complex. Quit your day job, put your email up on the website yet never reply to fan email, start hanging around in bars, etc. Like NWA said "Life ain't nuthin but bitches and money". Well at least until it runs out, then it's about family and bagging groceries. Apr 15, 04 | 9:03 pm
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[B]This is funny, but kind of mean too........you posted this to make people laugh I hope and didn't post it to put down those bands who do work very hard to put out their music.........right? I did laugh though....but......I am hoping it was posted with good intentions ....[/]>
Apr 15, 04 | 9:36 pm
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It's all for laughs, though I do aim it straight for the ones who act like assholes like Apoptygma (trust me,I've met Grothek). But Assemblage 23 are nice guys (I've interviewed Tom) and Seabound I've met once and are nice guys.
I just hate Future Pop and think it's ridiculous, but it's all in good fun. Apr 15, 04 | 9:45 pm
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My fiance is in Icon Of coil, so I'm a bit defensive and Stephen Groth is one of his best friends, so I guess I look at things a little differently. But your post was funny for the most part. Have a nice week end :)
Apr 15, 04 | 9:47 pm
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hehe, I don't like Grothek myself, but again to each their own. I have my story of him and my experiences. Icon's new CD isn't too terrible, but pretty linear in my opinion. Still a pretty decent group nonetheless and i'm sure some nice guys. Again the post is more poking fun directly at Grothek and Harris' rock star-isms and Future Pop's kindergarten formula.
Glad you like the post! hehe. Apr 15, 04 | 9:54 pm
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Well, not exactly liked it, but parts were amusing.
Apr 15, 04 | 10:52 pm
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Future pop blows.
Apr 15, 04 | 10:54 pm
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You know what's sad? The Blue Man group in it's nature is more industrial than some of the crap released these days.
:( Apr 15, 04 | 10:57 pm
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Exactly. I swear NWA and Public Enemy are more industrial than alot of the crap released nowadays.
Apr 15, 04 | 11:09 pm
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I find it all funny because "future pop" is a sub-sub genre of a sub genre of music. We give it different names to make something we like seem new. Music is always moving in cycles. In the industrial world around the mid 90's all of the same bands had virtually the same sound as well. It was even true in the late 80's. When "Praise the Fallen," "7," "Dreams of the Cyrotank" all came out it sounded fresh, it was different than the Leaether Strip clones of the moment. Now a lot of the bands have decided to use that style. Fear not for when the next big thing comes along the sounds will change. First folks will embrace it, than as time wears on some will despise it. And the cycle will repeat itself all over again. It never stops. If my guess is correct it could be very soon. For you see there are these two guys named kevin from canada that got a new record coming out. I think that loud destructive sounds will be coming very soon. Yelworc's new one was just the beginning. however
there is a lot worse music to hate than futurepop. I'm sorry to hear that you had somewhat negative experiences with S.G. and R.H. They were cool all of the times that I have met them. Actually this goes with every artist in this sub-genre of music that I have met. Apr 16, 04 | 1:07 am
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I can say from experience, that many I've met in the Future Pop field are aboutas charming as an aneurysm. But then again you may have had different experiences. I also, since no one bothered to notice, spoke from a more technical artist view than anything. Let's put it this way folks, I've heard it on the phone from the top of the field "we'll sell this boom boom shit as long as kids keep buying it".
If Pride And Fall hasn't opened your eyes to a field that is already pretty much two notes and no promise, well then................... Icon I take away from the list actually, since they have some decent songs and seem to actually know what they are doing. And seem like nice guys as well. I just find Future Pop ridiculous as fuck, nothing more than annoying stereotypes of techno and synthpop, as if those two worthy genres didn't have enough filler filing through them. It's a marketing trend, I've still heard that from the heads of the thing. To quote an email I got from Dependant said to me "we're done with this future pop shit, we're going more industrial". Have they? Fuck no, since that time they sign Pride And Fall, the one band to ever rip off VNV to the point of plagerism. Fuck, I believe I still have the email I"ll happily forward it to you. Not to mention they went through a band I manage to tell me they threaten me with a lawsuit for slander, despite the fact I could destroy them in court. I just don't care for it, I have better things to do than whine with some defeated ex-Offbeat assholes about the ripoffs they sign now. I'm not even a label and they decide to fight me, what a supreme waste of sperm and egg. Future Pop is a fucking joke, and a shitload of people got jived from the lack of good industrial post-Skinny Puppy. Industrial isn't about dance, it's not pop-love tunes like Stefan Grothek, it's not 4/4 lower cleft B-note shit like Apoptygma, it's about pure outright fuck you attitude. I lived in my version of hell for 4 years and I said fuck you to everything that came my way that fucked with my power to live my life, family and otherwise. Now I see weak-end shit passing as industrial??!?!? Fuck that! I got a hard-on seeing Yelwroc come back, and quite frankly he could have come back, made a dancefloor hit and made damn good money. But he dragged his huge nuts on over and delivered industrial goodness like many in the pseudo-EBM (people who think Apop and VNV, though I like VNV, as industrial) think is so hardcore. I'm sad the industrial scene, so full of attitude and fuck you gusto I grew up with, is nothing more than a pop ploy now. And even sadder when people buy into it. Apr 16, 04 | 1:39 am
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As far as "the two Kevins", you tell me if you'd even be in this field without SKinny Puppy then talk to me. ;-)
Yelworc's new CD is the beginning of the end for Future Pop. I'm sad more people aren't backing for it, since they've been moaning for real industrial forever. The Future Pop crowd gets it, creams their pants ans then runs. If you're not into original and new Yelwroc both, don't talk to me about real industrial. Go back to the Batman suits and pretend that Neuroticfish is real EBM. I'm sad to say folks, much has changed since my day and ideals in industrial. Apr 16, 04 | 1:45 am
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geistimsturm, Im not sure how your coming about saying A23 is future pop.
And if anyone hates the term future pop then you should complain to Ronan hes the one that came up with that term.. Apr 16, 04 | 3:31 am
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I've been involved with this industrial thing for 15 years. you are correct about Puppy. One note and your hooked forever! "Dig It", "Assimilate", and "Who's laughing Now?" were the first songs that I heard. VIVIsectVi was the first record of theirs that I bought. Here's a tale of real industrial for you...Throbbinng Gristle used to pump Carbon Monoxide into the air vents at their concerts to see how the audience would react to the experience in hopes to cause riots. Another footnote on the FP... in 1999 around the time of Columbine. there were basically witch hunts going on at Schools across America cracking down on all those dressed in black. I think that some might have stopped using the term "Industrial" and resurrected "EBM" which has been around since the 80's. After columbine,"goth" and "Industrial" had a negative context to it, the religious right had a new target instead of those pesky Devil worshipping metalheads. plus a lot of the hardcore industrial kids hated what was being lumped into the industrial genre by the mainstream. So the movement splinters..
You create a new name for the old one. Hopefully some of the problems go away. However we lose some of our guys in the fight, KMFDM (band has never been the same since this happened they need En Esch) and Manson (the new devil himself in the media's eyes) If I remember correctly Harris created the term out of irony. that this will be pop muzik of the future. Hence 'future pop is born' But the real irony is that Industrial is and should be as far from pop music as it can. The industrial shows I remember as a kid are images of a guy covered in gore who just stepped out of H.P. Lovecraft's imagination or guys in camo jumping around while world war three goes on around the crowd. how is that for real industrial for you. Apr 16, 04 | 3:48 am
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And then comes the best part...the arguments about which band is future pop and which is not. When it all comes down to it is that it is all rock'n'roll, people just keep coming up with different names because this world is obsessed with classification, just with different instruments and some really crazy haircuts and clothes that would scare the hell out of the its ancestors from the 50's. but I think that those guys would still dig the music. It still captures the same spirit. Freedom in some shape or form.
Apr 16, 04 | 4:01 am
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Havoc there wont be any war with me i just honestly dont understand why he says A23 is a future pop..
Apr 16, 04 | 4:03 am
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there is no war. just a bunch of insomniacs expressing ideas. Sadly this idea has been lost on the leaders of nations. We are creating are own war by taking the genre of Industrial/Ebm and spliting apart into different categories i.e. future pop, powernoise, synthpop what have you. really there is no need for all of this classification of sub-sub genres. Hell some wound lump Seabound as a Synth-pop band,see it is all rather pointless in a fashion in the grand scheme of things. For the record a-23 is probably lumped in as future pop because of association with vnv. On the last tour vnv performed naked as a final encore with tom shear. That is my guess. Also refer to geist's 29 point plan and that is how that they have been deemed as future pop. This is just my opinion on that.
Apr 16, 04 | 4:12 am
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On Stephan G. I must say that so far all of the interviews i had with him were good fun. He's answering and telling interesting stuff... I know some others who get a free podium and start wining because you ask them difficult or tricky questions...
Apr 16, 04 | 4:21 am
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...there are good and there are bad bands. check the so called industrial...there you can also find a lot of bullshit. noise nonsense which sounds like a rotating mole in a mixer. if you know how this music is produced you see no difference between using presetsounds for futurepop or noiseblabla.
it´s not a question of the style you make it´s a question of the soul in it! Apr 16, 04 | 4:35 am
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The Soul is In The Software I've heard :)......heh....
Apr 16, 04 | 4:43 am
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Well, I dropped Virtual Laura Croft a line stating idf IOC i in townl, I'll arrange an intereview (esp. consdiring a friend who's a huge friend) anddinner is on. Who knows if they'll accept the Portuguese dinner of love. ;-)
Apr 16, 04 | 4:49 am
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'De gustibus et coloribus non disputandum'
Why is there always a discussion about what's industrial, gothic, future pop, ... and who's fake and who's not? Just do your own thing, have an opinion and don't convince the rest. Cut the crap plz. Apr 16, 04 | 6:38 am
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Industrial isn't about dance, it's not pop-love tunes like Stefan Grothek, it's not 4/4 lower cleft B-note shit like Apoptygma, it's about pure outright fuck you attitude.
Whoever said APB were industrial? I hear the terms "ebm", "synthpop" used a lot, but recently, I've not heard industrial as a term used for APB. And then you go on to say that Industrial is about the "fuck you" attitude and how it's been lost, but you slag off Stephan for having a "fuck you" attitude. The man can't win. I'm sorry you have had a bad experience with Stephan. But he really doesn't deserve the reputation he has. Musicians have bad days too. It's a pretty stressful job at times and chances are, you may catch them off guard. It happens. But what I will say is, that I am sick to the back teeth of people having "run ins" with member of bands and then going online to slag them off at every chance they get. It's not cool, not cool at all. Apr 16, 04 | 7:49 am
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"Your toaster is now a machine of walking bloodshed, my friend, harness its pain!"
PRICELESS....you made my Friday man!!!! Vaye con diablos....SIN Apr 16, 04 | 8:32 am
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OK, what has been said about R.H and S.G *cannot* be justified, and I feel that T.S should not be left out. His behaviour as FP2004 was deplorable. During H.P's set, he was at the bar mouthing off about T.U.I to some of my friends. I heard and confronted him about it, but H.G broke us up. I'm sure you agree.
Apr 16, 04 | 8:36 am
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hey geistimsturm, i had a lot of fun reading your comments about future-pop, though i like the (sub)genre!! :-)
by the way, where are you from? Apr 16, 04 | 8:57 am
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Wow.
Apr 16, 04 | 9:42 am
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Meow?
Apr 16, 04 | 9:49 am
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Yo, this thread needs to go back to 2000 when it was still worth arguing about.
if [Futurepop =/= Industrial], then [Futurepop > Industrial] and/or [Industrial > Futurepop] = COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT! I'm not a fan of either genre, there are as many shit Futurepop bands as shit Industrial bands, but one has nothing to do with the other, except that the same general pool of people in shiny pants listens to both, and the ratio of one section to the other seems to cause people to lose alot of goddamned sleep. Here's a novel idea: If you don't like it, don't listen to it! Of course I am all for making fun of Futurepop and/or Industrial and/or pretty much anything else, but there's a difference between mocking the stereotypes and all-out nitpicking. For instance, I can't think of a Skinny Puppy song that wasn't recorded in either 4/4 or 3/4, almost all "popular music" is.. Don't confuse standard time signatures and simplicity, 4/4 does not by definition mean "kick snare kick snare" disco drums. If you're going to condemn bands for recording in 4/4, you'd better be listening to some goddamned Stockhausen instead of complaining that everyone doesn't sound more like Puppy. Apr 16, 04 | 11:36 am
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hey Epsilon Minus... does this make you feel like you're reading a certian LJ? hehe.
seriously...(this isnt directed at anyone Gsturm) i think this arguement has been done to death. Personally, i have met most of the so-called futurepop rock stars that you mentioned, and all of them have been really cool people. Andys, Seb and Christian are just about the funnest group of people i have ever met,totally down to earth and so was Groth when i met him (albeit briefly) he actually came off as shy. VNV are a great bunch of guys... Tom is cool as hell too. and for those that didnt get the memo when the whole Future pop term was coined, one of the whole points about it was the fact that the electro-industrial-darkwave-evilpolka scene was going in two very distinct directions... there were the bands that followed in the path of Skinny Puppy and Leather Strip, and then there was this whole other batch of bands that were coming up with a sound that had more to do with coming up listening to Nitzer Ebb and Front 242 and early rave and techno and not going the Throbbing Gristle and SP route. The term was used, as someone already pointed out, humourously. I hate to be the one to say this, but i dont think the heydey of industrial is going to ever happen again. times and musical styles change. personally, i like a lot of the futurepop acts. dont like a few of them. i like a lot of the leather strip influenced acts, there are a lot i think are terrible. I am not going to site here and say "this band sucks! they should be more like Neubauten!" because i am all grown up now. So really, if you dont like it, then nobody is forcing you to listen to it, or buy it, or go to the shows, but is it really worth ranting about on the internet? is it worth the amount of time it takes to write a rant on how so-and-so supposedly uses a preset on this keyboard and is taking a sample from here and blah blah blah? so what? who ever said to Jimmy Page "dude... i cant believe you tuned your guitar the way it was supposed to sound... you're a sellout" i respect people who can write an awesome album using only a sampler made from radio shack parts and manipulated samples of their cat Bootsie farting. Great... good for you, well done. there is a whole segment of the scene that will love you for it.. and a whole segment that will say "WTF? that sounds like a cat farting" Just like someone may think, "that sound is a programmed 4/4 bassline with a synth lead over it thats not really original! they should do something like goa trance with a 4/4 beat with a horse-gallop-drum fill and a synth lead over it. now thats original and genius" i mean, really... its all music. if you like it great, if you dont, great. does it make you that much cooler to make fun of it? Apr 16, 04 | 12:41 pm
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Yes, it is much better to focus the derision upon the consumption of cheese burgers and snack food.
I'm staying the hell away from the "preset argument" (which I prefer to think of as the "lazy programming" argument) because I've had it a million times and nothing was ever gained from it, but at least that's an area of discussion with some objectivity, whereas the futurepop vs industrial thing comes down to subjective taste and opinions, and is therefore absolutely not worth arguing about. Apr 16, 04 | 12:48 pm
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"(26). You must own a Waldorf and forget about the keys outside of the presets. If ain't a preset, it's not music in Future Pop."
heh, since when did it become Waldorf synths? i thought the Access Virus synth was the culprit behind future-pop ; ]. but seriously, i think your forgetting that when APB, Covenant, VNV started doing their thing, there was nothing that sounded like it. In fact i remember a time when everyone was imitating the skinny puppy sound u seem to love so much. which is cool cause i grew-up on skinny puppy... but i got sick of hearing clones flood the club speakers and as soon as i heard X Marks the Pedwalks 'Drawback', APBs 7, VNVs 'PTF', etc. i embraced it cause it was new and exciting. So i think u have it backwards when you imply these bands are not creative... they are not copying a formula, they invented a formula. Apr 16, 04 | 1:35 pm
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This is a great example of why this genre is always going to be underground. What is the point of all the negativity? Why create some stupid genre war because you don't like a style of music? You know, call me crazy, but I BET it's possible that some people out there even like Yelworc *AND* VNV Nation. Shocking, I know.
Speaking for myself only, I've never tried to represent myself as doing hardcore 'industrial' or tried to imply that what I was doing was somehow on the same level as Skinny Puppy or whatever. I just make the music I make because I happen to enjoy doing it. Saying that people who make a certain kind of music are doing it only for the money is a joke in this scene. If you knew how few copies of their albums these bands are selling (yes, even VNV), you'd probably laugh. No one is 'cashing in' on anything. Believe me, if money was a motivator for me, I'd be making hip-hop. The time for these musical 'my dick is bigger than yours' arguments is over. They achieve nothing except to make the ones arguing about it look bitter and sad. Not everyone is going to like the same thing. Instead of worrying about whether or not everyone else likes the same stuff you do, that may or may not be as popular as some other style, just listen to the music you enjoy, support it, and turn your friends on to it. This scene is SO tiny, and every band out there needs the support and help of its fans. If we all spent less time complaining about the bands we hated, and spent more time evangilizing about the bands we love, I think we'd all be a lot better off. Apr 16, 04 | 1:38 pm
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I am the Ron Jeremy of musical dicks.
Apr 16, 04 | 1:45 pm
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Hi all...
I couldn't agree more with the post of Tom over here. I'm a newcomer to the "scene", with an album about to be released and since the "scene" is indeed so small as Tom stated, I'm not even sure that it'll ever be released, with so many months of post-poning now. I really don't think that granted this, ie how small this "business" is, there's no need for anyone to keep on quarreling about these stupid questions. Futurepop, industrial, ebm, techno-trance... whatever: let's just musician do what they like at the best of their skills. Then listen to it if you like or trash it if not. And I said "listen" because we all know too well that people nowadays just downloads. My 2 cents. Apr 16, 04 | 1:50 pm
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shit, come to think of it... Front242s music is the origin of body music(EBM) and Official Version, Tyranny for You, backCatalogue, are all club albums. you could argue that they mangled many a sample, distorted many a drum machine, and had many an unexpected break, but they had a lot of pop elements. In fact, when i saw them live, there were more "ravers" wearing Prodigy tshirts, than "Goth/industrial" kids.
Now im starting to make a lot of generalizations, but my point , geistimsturm , is that "appealing to the rave crowd" should not even be an issue. Why do people have to be divided into little groups based on musical preference/clothing? Apr 16, 04 | 1:56 pm
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Xavier, because they're often more interested in being part of a little group based on musical preference/clothing than they are in enjoying music.
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That's why the "scene" is so ridicolous.
Actually I thought it was limited to Italy, but I sadly note it's not so... Apr 16, 04 | 2:08 pm
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...a number for the boys who think vnv nation sells 1283687124682342364 cd´s: 27000 copies of futureperfect in germany.
source: elektrauma.de well, well...they are big (for this scene) so i think you can imagine what other bands can sell...;) and say what you want, vnv nation has something which most of the bands don´t have and nevery will get: an image which attracts. Apr 16, 04 | 2:32 pm
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Well my Waldof brokedown so now I can't be Future Pop anymore. :(
Now I can't afford my big black Escalade either. Apr 16, 04 | 4:09 pm
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i'd like to think that geistimsturm posted his message as a kind of joke, and that's what i was thinking while reading it...
i think there's no need in taking it seriously... :) in general terms, this is transition time, the world is crazy and so we are. let's enjoy making music, listening to it, dancing to it, and so on... i live in argentina and there seem to be the same problems within the "scene" like in everywhere else. maybe someone should make an investigation and find out if (and why) most of the people that belongs to the "synth/electro/ebm/gothic" scene is f*cking crazy, heheh :-) tom shear: your work is amazing Apr 16, 04 | 4:54 pm
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Concerning VNV Nation, it's something I would wish to add my grain of salt. I used to like them so much, then to hate their sound and then to finally like them. Listen around, they aren't by far the most boring repetitive band you can find. As for the lyrics, it's not A23, but still there's something kind of nice about it that just make it feel good to listen. As for not playing much during concert, I've seen many bands with two keyboard players on stage who do much less live music than Ronan and Mark.
As for Germany being the holy land of futurepop, I couldn't disagree more. DM, The Cure and whatever was kind of goth in the '80 is played so much more than VNV or any of the futurepop clones. Talking of clones, I think there's way much more Suicide Commando or Hocico clones around than so called futurepop bands. On a closing note concerning DJ Ronan, he might surprise anyone in his dj set, but at least he doesn't play DM, The Cure, Placebo, Manson, Evanaisance, Linkin Park, Slayer and others during a ebm/synth/darkwave evening. The scene is so great in Germany! PS: While DM were great, I can't hear them being played three times a night every weekend!!! Apr 16, 04 | 5:27 pm
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The thing is that that all of the name calling and the"my dad can beat up your dad..." type of stuff is not only present in the "industrial" subculture. It is present in all of them. In the punk scene it is whether or not your favorite band is real punk or a bunch of posers. In the metal world it is the contest of that band is more metal than another... I guess that in the hip hop world it could be a contest of who has the best ho's and guns. Society or niches in a society want to have a feeling of exclusivisity to what they and there friends are into. Everyone wants to be into something that is cool. People are willing to defend their musical tastes to the death. I think that some people are more passionate about music than other things. Sadly I think it is human nature to bitch about nothing. It would be better if as 7 seconds put it that "if the kids are united, we will never be divided." When we go to a show and we see that there are rave kids, or punk kids or even frat boys and sorority chicks at industrial shows we should be happy that more people are getting into something new and that vnv or whoever is breaking new ground. We want to our bands to it make into the rollingstone magazines of this world. this means that finally they will have the money to tour the world, and be able to afford what ever visa restrictions are imposed. But we're afraid of losing that exlcusive rights to our scene. We are afraid that people we don't like get into what were into then it's no longer cool. Remember what happened with NIN. I remember along time ago in what some might look back as the glory days of all this in future, where a lot of the kids who were into F-242 were into were also into the Smiths, the Cure, DM, Led Zeppelin, Sonic youth, and the Specials, or even Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin. It did not seem that people only listened to one type of music. There is my little expose on the way I think things are.
Apr 16, 04 | 5:42 pm
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havoc man- i think you are absolutely right. around here anyway, a lot of the people who are all anti-futurepop are the same kids who were requesting Darkangel and Eclipse and Tour De Force 5 times a night when i was djing. These are also the same type of people who told me i should stop playing "all this weird NEW shit" one night when i spun Pocket Calculator by Kraftwerk.
Wait a few years. They will be bitching about Suicide Commando being sellouts or Hocico being lame cause more people like them. I wish people would realize that a box cut and a skinny puppy shirt does not necessarily make them an expert in all things industrial. and btw... since you mentioned him, Frank Sinatra is my favorite all time artist. i own tons of his stuff. Apr 16, 04 | 5:57 pm
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I'd just like to point out that *I* have the best ho's and guns.
Apr 16, 04 | 5:59 pm
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for the last time Tom, i am not your ho.
Apr 16, 04 | 6:04 pm
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Oh hell naw, Tom comes around my hood talking that trash, he'll get caught up in a one-eight-seven! ;)
And people, please, proper apostrophes. It's "hoes". Apr 16, 04 | 6:23 pm
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Trick, who gave you permission to speak?
Apr 16, 04 | 6:24 pm
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Haha... oops, my comment was for MetroJim, not epsilonminus. Bogart's not a ho, just a stripper.
Apr 16, 04 | 6:25 pm
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signing sessions will take place on the side-line ebay section, 100 EURO per signature, payable to Side-Line. We'll see if we pay the bands. IN QUEUE NOW !!!!!!
Apr 16, 04 | 6:27 pm
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OH SNAP U BETTER BREAK YOURSELF FOOL
Hah, before I read your second post I was totally reaching for my strap... Apr 16, 04 | 6:29 pm
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MetroJim: I'm glad to hear you like old blue eyes. I thought I was an anomaly for being into the industrial scene AND Sinatra...
As for the rest of the discussion: I think it's healthy to discuss the various variations and styles within the scene, as long as it's done in a serious and non-bitchin' tone. It just shows that people are passionate about the scene. Apr 16, 04 | 7:17 pm
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I wanna hear Tom cover NWA's "I Ain't Da 1". :-p
Apr 16, 04 | 8:17 pm
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/idolatry mode on
tshear23: Love your work. Cocoon and Horizon off Defiance are two of your best songs to date. That is all. Meow. /idolatry mode off Apr 16, 04 | 9:58 pm
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Thanks. :)
Apr 17, 04 | 12:37 am
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I should probably toss in Failure at home. I liked it at first until the clubs here burned me out on it. Who votes yes on this one?
BTW,Catgirl probably has the healthiest pimp hand of anyone here. :-p Apr 17, 04 | 1:03 am
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I actually vote no: if I liked a an album I will continue to like it even if incompetend djs, and there are lots of them around, continue to play the same bunch of songs over and over.
Apr 17, 04 | 7:26 am
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Not me. Getting a block of the same artist night after night while people who obviously are there to be seen dance with their martini glasses paints one ugly image in my head. Not all clubs are like that of course, but I've seen my share (like Neo in Chicago).
Can't wait for the new CD to come out, btw. Perhaps Radek is having me promote it over here, we'll see. Apr 17, 04 | 2:02 pm
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I can't wait for it either. You know, being postponed for 9 month a re-issue is very disappointing...
I hope the label will promote it. Anyway, right now I'm not in the best of moods toward that issue... an endless wait without seeing any proofs is tiring. Apr 17, 04 | 2:45 pm
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Well, gotta remember Radek is running everything virtually by himself, so he tends to get backed up. I really think he needs an assistant, and I've told him that before. But he's a great guy, backs up the bands, and never releases anything without making sure he's ready to get out there and promote it. Look at Final Selection, the same amount of wait for a re-issue but with dynamic results!
Apr 17, 04 | 2:51 pm
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Don't get me wrong, I'm faithful in Radek and Black Flames' capabilities.
But I'm also a deep observer of this scene, and I'm also in good terms of friendship with some big names inside of it, so I've came to think that contrary to the idea that also started this thread, it's not easy at all to "cash in" with futurepop. It's a small scene, very fucking small, and either you are at the right time and right place with the right people, or your opportunity is lost. If you ever had one opportunity, that's it. Also, is all based on trends... I see the "dark ebm" getting bigger now, with tons of Hocico and Suicide Commando-alike bands getting more and more exposure Oh my god, I'm sounding too goth-y I guess... epsilonminus will come around and kick me in the head :) Apr 17, 04 | 3:06 pm
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Well, couple of years back it was much easier, now we do see the "I'm more Germanic and cyber" than thou bands coming out now, who to me usually just appear outright fucking goofy. Too many shiny-pants,mohawked retreads coming out these days acting like badasses while using a very redundant beat and theme line.
I also notice goth metal is becoming big, but not for the more daring acts out there like Moonspell or Poisonblack. Personally, I could go for a dark IDM trend ala Gridlock. It still perplexes me how this scene just looks over IDM like it never existed, but college kids listening to Coldplay are going nuts for it. Weird. I'm still wondering how Metropolis looks over it as well. Apr 17, 04 | 3:36 pm
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The last thing the IDM scene needs is to be polluted by goth/industrial. IDM is, as far as I am concerned, the best electronic music genre going, and it's going strong on its own. There's no need for Metropolis to show token interest in IDM when labels like Warp are busy ruling the planet.
Apr 17, 04 | 7:57 pm
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What was that feeling in my pants when you mentioned Warp?
Good point. I don't think we're quite ready to get Autechre out on the dancefloor until the insurance problem cures up. Apr 17, 04 | 11:09 pm
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i agree with Autechre being innovative great music, but i think for the most part IDM is a bunch of "my laptop has more pluggins than your laptop" crap. im surprised the same people who hate futurepop are promoting the IDM-trend, considering its a similar situation of a small group of people doing something new(aphex,autechre,squarepusher,) , then masses of people dissecting, rearranging, and blatently copying.
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I've always been curious to the term Intellegent Dance Music. What's the alternative, Stupid Dance Music? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm we may have a new trend I'll pioneer with my project. ;-)
Lanternslide=Leaders of The Stupid Dance Music scene. Apr 18, 04 | 1:39 am
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IDM.....Inteligent dance music.........oh jesus! This is getting silly!! LMAO!!
continue.............*gets popcorn* Apr 18, 04 | 1:52 am
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Intelligent Dance Music?....;) I often fall asleep when listening to such stuff. So i prefer SDMWA = Stupid Dance Music With Action!
or maybe EDMWNMBB = Evil Dance Music With No Meaning But Beat........... or RVIBAWSAA = Raven Voiced Industrial By Amateurs With Soul And Attitude maybe a little bit to long for the promotion campaigns. Apr 18, 04 | 4:00 am
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LMAO!!
Apr 18, 04 | 4:05 am
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Wait until Retarded Dance Music his yo punk azz. Word up, meine Deutsch nigga! Lanternslide in da haouze!
Fuck, let's just get ot the quick and combine industrial and soul. Marvin Gaye through a vocoder and guitar pedals like the old days. Apr 18, 04 | 4:12 am
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Funny, I thought IDM stood for "Industrial Dance Music"...
Apr 18, 04 | 4:26 am
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Isn't all Industrial outside of Whitehouse more or less dance music?
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"i thought the Access Virus synth was the culprit behind future-pop ; ]."
Yes "but seriously, i think your forgetting that when APB, Covenant, VNV started doing their thing, there was nothing that sounded like it." You missed the entire Vocal Trance/Techno scene of the late 80's and early 90's? Add 1984 lyrics to that music as copied and 'represented' by the mighty Access Virus presets and you have Futurepop IDM does indeed = Intelligent Dance Music" Interestingly the fans of that scene bitch and moan about all the copycats wannabes too. There isn't much cash in hip hop either mostly all image and posturing Apr 18, 04 | 5:10 am
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I think they definitely missed out on C+C Music Factory and BT as well.
There is alot of cash in hip hop but you have a million other people to work against, and have to fit an image to really make it big. Look at Jurassic 5, talented as hell but probably still have dayjobs. There is alot of good IDM out there, but most of it sounds like nothing more than garbled noise sometimes. I listened to a group my friend brought over years ago, while he was popping Ecstacy. I was like "dude, it sounds like he's just fucking pressing buttons on a drum machine", and he was saying some mumbo jumbo aided by the drugs about how great it was. After he came down though, he was like "What the fuck is this shit?!". I'm sure there are others who've run into this same scenario. Apr 18, 04 | 1:52 pm
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It must be me being limited... but I really don't like IDM :)
Apr 18, 04 | 3:14 pm
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Wait until I make Retarded Dance Music then. ;-)
Ever seen retarded people work drum machines and play drums like the Blue Man Group? Woah ho ho you're in for a surprise! Apr 18, 04 | 3:28 pm
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Can I just stick to things like hard trance and hard nrg? :)
Apr 18, 04 | 3:32 pm
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You know you want to jump the Retarded Dance Music trend, and get laid every night by groupies. ;-)
If we have Future Pop, we should have Prehistoric Pop as a counterthesis. We just grunt and beat our laptops and Access Viruses with clubs while tossing poop at people. Apr 18, 04 | 3:48 pm
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Well, I adore Synthpop,Future Pop, Industrial, EBM etc and I don't care what people call it or how it is made...if it sounds good, then I like it.
I adore VNV's latest stuff and I'm no purist when it comes to music, I don't care for 'labels' about things. Lets all stop arguing, the scene is small as it is...the more people whom get interested in the music the better, whether they like EBM or Future pop or whatever. I hate snobbery in this scene, if we all listen to music within this scene then we shouldn't be torn apart by squabbling over which band is better etc. That's just my view on things. Where I work no one understands the music I listen to, they all like hip-hop-r'n'b/garage etc...I would be so thankful to find someone there who is even familliar with my sort of music, whether they like Skinny Puppy or Apop or just understand it as they know others who like it or something along those lines.I must subconciously know goodness knows how many rap lyrics as the guys at work keep singing them all the time.... Anyway...tshear23....I adore your music also, especially 'Purgatory' and 'Pages'(I can relate to that song as I had a friend like that once) keep up the good work!!!! Apr 18, 04 | 4:44 pm
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Biscuits on Kittens.
Futurepop has not started playing in McDonalds commercials yet, so it hasn't reached it's intended potential. Let's give it a chance. Bogart, convince Rax that he needs to leave the city so we can meet for cheeseburgers and be all that we can be. k? GREAT THX!!!!!!!!11` In the meantime, everyone here needs to put aside their plastic shorts and extensions, pick up some gangsta rap, and learn to be TROO THUGZ. kthxttyl Apr 18, 04 | 6:30 pm
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... Loci? Who be invoking Rax's holy name. Regardless, "Yes". And you people need to stop fucking ripping on rap music right now.
Apr 18, 04 | 6:47 pm
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Future Pop isn't in fast food ads? Behold:
http://66.92.160.102/Ronan/burgerperfect.gif Hmmmmmmmmmmmm,Future Pop in fast food commercials.........Think VNV's "Intro" on Future Perfect (a CD I do like by the way): This...is your order. These...are your fries. You can either supersize it today, or buy a Hot Apple Pie tomorrow. Apr 18, 04 | 7:13 pm
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I almost feel bad for owning a Virus… Haha... But honestly, the synth elitism has got to stop. It’s sad when you’re basing a bands musical worth off of what instrument they are using, or it’s presets. Access Virus the ultimate future pop synth? Maybe, but id also put it up there as one of the best noise/industrial synths, alongside Sequential Circuits gear. Just look at the specs of the Virus and you will see why people use them. Don’t hate bands because they aren’t emptying their wallets purchasing or fixing old ass analogs.
BTW, Bank D, Patch 93 Raspry had to be the inspiration for the intro to single “Contact” by Seabound ;) Apr 18, 04 | 7:34 pm
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geistimsturm,
Sorry to hear that your band's not doing so well, but it seems your envy is now sentient and in control of your senses, and so perhaps its time to put the gun in your mouth, because recovery from your current state of jealous depravity may not actually be feasible, as your life filled with shame could only get worse from here. You know what's funny? You're an archetype too. Seen it many times before. I think it's about time we template you into some potentially inaccurate boiler plate bullshit as well. You dirty little masochist, you. This is the abuse you sought in posting this horribly negative bullshit about people within their earshot, right? Flog me! Flog me, popstars! Well, here you go. How to be a proper subcultural music curmudgeon: 1. You must secretly long to create pop music, but also lack the balls to dare to be so inauthentic as to try and express yourself audibly, or to "bring people together" with hookish or even slightly cheesy music. You refuse to undistort your vocals, and mixing them a decibel or two high would be blasphemy. You are ruled by legitimacy, because you take yourself too seriously. 2. You must sit around creating self-congratulatory artschooly wankerish noodlings on an excess of uber elite, cumbersome, overpriced old-school hardware analog audio gear which you've acquired entirely based on snobby usenet recommendations, knowledge which you then try to pass off as inherent ("Been into this vintage gear since I saw Tangerine Dream and Can with my uncle in the 70s. etc.") 3. Must create music with no bass, no hooks, and poor arrangements, all the time convincing yourself that you're more knowledgeable than those silly pop stars who have the balls to hit the road with actual party music for a party (perish the thought.) 4. Your band must be massively underpromoted, and rightfully so. 5. You must be an ex-VNV fan who formerly based your identity around it and who now feels embarrassed by the bands subsequent growth and perceived genericization. You must feel that somehow your identity has been sold out, because you were a stupid fool for investing your sense of personal style in a band in the first place. You must be the 569,542,313th adolescent idiot to fall victim to this identity misplacement ruse since The Beatles stormed America. You must base greater than half of your numbered insults on your terrible misperceptions of Ronan Harris, and do such an abysmally horrid job of concealing the sources of your anger, that you end up making yourself look a lot more like a psycho stalker than a slightly wry commentator. 6. Your envy must be totally irrational and completely disproportionate to the amount of bitches, money, or perks that your underground complaint targets actually receive. Even upon learning that these people are overworked, underpaid, relatively normal, and sometimes mentally ill, you must still continue to be a mudslinging prick, because parasites aren't particularly choosy about their hosts, and your loneliness is far, far deeper than that which could ever be experienced by a "solitary" songwriter, and you were raised so poorly by rednecks that you can't even channel your anger sensibly or responsibly. 7. Must meet so called popstars in person once, have them fail to completely jizz over your very aura, must then allow your fundamental insecurity and egomaniacal self-loathing to jump to conclusions about their obvious attitude problems, must then proceed to smear their image and strive to damage their business prospects any time anyone will listen to you spew your venom, because, after all, it is far better to crash into a star than to plummet through space, and anonymity is the worst of all possible fates for an underskilled egomaniac. 8. Must purport expertise and criticize VA synths without being the slightest bit educated about why they are actually superior to trashy old gear with intonation, feature, heat, and connectivity problems. Will also very often refer to "faked" DAT/MD/DVD/DJ gigs which involve "bands doing nothing!" without ever suggesting a workable method for spontaneously producing complex, high BPM arpeggiated dance music in a live setting, with just 4 hands. Must be a stupid dilletante. 9. Must make numerous allusions to rockstar's perceived abuse of groupies as a projection and trasferrence of your own lusts, as you are probably secretly or not so secretly a rapist waiting to happen. Must continue to slander musicians sexuality, even when they are married or committed in a loving relationship. 10. Must assume that EBM artists give a flying fuck about goth, and that they should. 11. Isnt it about time you moved on to elitist IDM graduate school like a properly cliched post-EBM post-clubber who never got the ass he wanted? 12. Must try to insult, belittle, and trump every newer band by holding them to some imagined standard created by some has been "seminal" band which either no longer exists, or which is inactive enough to possess a sort of mystical and mythically distant aura and fame--a credibility which you can then easily abuse as if its participants actually intended for it to become a weapon for your ivory tower derision. SP is a favorite weapon here. Noone is ever as good as SP was, noone is as original, noone is as cool, nor as deep, nor as wigged, nor as inventive. Coil is another great one. Noone will ever be as fucked up or as creative as Coil, and if Coil is playing a concert, you are required to attend, even if they hand out mandatory shitcicles at the front door and then proceed to batter your skull with 1kHz test tones for two hours. The concert will have still been mindblowing. Like I said, move onto glitchbung IDM, plenty of this annoying music for you masochists over in that graduate school filled with bitter post-clubbers. 12. Must be so trite and archetypically bitter that I get tired of bothering to retort, such that I abandon my pseudo-witty bullshit half way through because you will never understand, since you will always be a naysayer rather than a doer, so I go do something else. You know, the biggest problem with the internet is that it gives everyone a voice even when their character does not warrant it. Apr 18, 04 | 10:05 pm
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Ummmmmmmmmmmmm sorry to break it to you, but my "band" (which consists soley of me), hasn't released anything, hasn't had any intention of doing so forever, and really in my mind is on a "I'll get it done when it gets done" basis. I'm in absolutely no rush, I don't promote it, I don't even really talk about it. Ten dollars says you don't even know the name of my music project.
You have this weird psychology that I'm an industrial artist for some reason as well who's anti-pop, considering that I promote and manage (in America) several synthpop artists and proudly so, and that my music project (which you obviously never have heard) has distorted vocals (which at this stage there aren't even vocals on these tracks which are hidden in the dungeon of my hard drive). I could go further into this snide, whiny, psilocybe-aided rant of your's, but why bother? Move on, little boy, I've heard you before (and already know who you are), and you sure as fuck aren't anything like Zarathustra. I think this rant proves every bit of that. Apr 18, 04 | 10:29 pm
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so... now that this thread has totally gone down the drain... lets start a new topic. ill go first:
isnt it ironic that as soon as most EBM bands started incorporating trance/techno influences and moved away from the "old skool sound", the trance/techno scene started embracing the old skool E-beat sound? weird, eh? for example: Nitzer Ebb/242 songs are now showing up on house/trance DJ's setlist, while most industrial setlist are playing more Ferry Corston... "its sumthin like a phenomenon..." discuss... Apr 18, 04 | 10:46 pm
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Ferry Corston...............trying to remember that name. I'm guessing from the latter part it's something to do with De La Soul?
Well, from accounts I've heard about the last F242 concert here, there were far more ravers than goth or industrial kids in the crowd. And judging by "Pulse", they've gone completely techno for the most part. Most of the industrial DJs I know though are sticking to the more hardcore stuff like Feindflug,Hocico,Suicide Commando,etc. So I say it's kind of natural. Though I've never seen Nitzer Ebb on a techno list! ;-) I even think "Showtime" may be a little too hardcore for the rave crowd. Apr 18, 04 | 10:53 pm
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I know that when 242 came in '98 to the US, I went solely to see Project Pitchfork open for them. Pitchfork was fucking awesome, but 242 was so bad I walked out. :(
PS- Where are the DJ's that stick to Industrial?! I seemed to be plagued by DJ's that think the only thing anyone wants to listen to are Beborn Beton and Wolfsheim. Apr 18, 04 | 11:49 pm
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On that last part, DJ Krass is one of them.
F242 has a few good songs, but in my humblew opinion are severely overrated, really. Esp. "Headhunter" (waits for flood of hate mail for the Louie Louie of the electronic scene), and I could picture the shows to be quite bad. Now Project Pitchfork on the other hand. <----------------- :-D Are you familiar with Aurora Sutra? Apr 19, 04 | 1:26 am
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bittersweet said "goodness knows". That has filled me with passion. Let us have a date. <3
And for the ones who are confused that IDM is something elitist, stop listening to Warp. Of course they are... they're homobiscuits with increasingly washed up artists. Hopefully Planet-Mu won't join them. Some of the best material coming out now is coming from the netlabels anyways. Dig around here for a while. Hooray for cats. k? Peengrappled. Apr 19, 04 | 2:01 am
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Is Mo Wax still around?
I still kinda miss that old MTV show Amp. That show was pretty decent, esp. back during in the party days of old. :-) Apr 19, 04 | 2:04 am
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Geistimsturm, the latest PP shows were not really convincing to me, the F242 ones on the other hand blew me away. And that's not because they are on Alfa Matrix. The label would not sign an act they don't like anyhow.
Apr 19, 04 | 3:20 am
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And regarding Aurora Sutra, I liked the first release, it was labeled as being Bel Canto here in the shops in Belgium. :) Good relaxing album, and pat is a sweet girl :))
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I'm yet to see PP myself. See Belle Morte any chance you get, they will utterly knock your socks off. They have all the energy of a Napalm Death show, and that is no small compliment. And keep a bottle of A1 around for Andy. ;-)
Never seen F242 live, I've just heard them on CD. Again, few good songs but nothing too much that really gripped me outside of "Tyranny For You". I grew up more on the Skinny Puppy side of things. Hmmmmmmmmmm, I'm always up for hearing some Alfa Matrix bands. I tried a couple years ago, but got turned down for promos to review and interview for. I'm still up for it, actually. Apr 19, 04 | 3:29 am
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well, it may surprise you, but I actually have to buy all the stuff as well... the non-am bands I mean, since we keep all copies for review centrally for archives.
I know that am has a very strict policy for promo's and that's because they only service the square matrix 004 and the compilations to the smaller press. Only the major press gets albums. There is just too much promo demand and servicing promo's actually did not increase the sales, on the contrary. They have to make choices. For the record, there are over 1200 people that asked for promo's... knowing that 1000 sold copies is pretty much the standard in this scene you'll get the picture :) Apr 19, 04 | 3:39 am
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I'll mail you a burger in return, or I can send you my ex-girlfriend in return.
;-) MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, smell that burger, you know you want it! *Gives you the burger as you convince your overlords I'm something near major press* Oh, I thought you guys WERE Alfa Matrix. Don't you guys run some sort of label? Apr 19, 04 | 4:29 am
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side-line is the property of seba, chief editor is Bernard (moi).
alfa matrix is the property of seba, benoit and bernard (moi). so yes and no to your question; and i referred to non am band for which i buy everything myself of course :) it's a bit like Claus from orkus who also runs zoomshot etc etc etc. Apr 19, 04 | 4:35 am
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Xavier:
I agree there are a few DJs like Dave Clarke,DJ Hell eho do seem to be picking up on the older EBM sound (check out DJ Hells Electronic Body House Music compilation on React for a good example of this). As for Industrial DJs doing so the other way round I have noticed lots picking up on Electroclash.A lot of popular newer industrial tracks seem to be based on standard trance synth lines. Rivetmike Apr 19, 04 | 4:44 am
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i'd love to do some DJing on tour. I'd love busting out some of the more unknown bands like Cryptomnesia (esp. the first CD), Antigen Shift, Novatekk Torture Technologies and Detritus. I may do some on the Fektion Fekler tour coming up this fall, so who knows?
PS, Anyone asks me for Apop, you're getting "Apocalyptic Manifesto". Ask me for VNV you're getting those promo CDs they send out with the harsh alternate tracks. And ask me for HIM and I'll definitely put some My Dying Bride on the dancefloor. ;-) What would Side Line (Stefan) play if he were DJing? Apr 19, 04 | 4:56 am
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I've never seen Nitzer Ebb on a techno list! ;-) I even think "Showtime" may be a little too hardcore for the rave crowd.
I think Novamute recently put out cover versions of Control Im Here that was featured on a compilation along with RickieHawtin, Derek May, and other mostly "house/techno" style DJ's. by the way, i dont think this is a bad thing at all, just an observation. in fact , i hope EBM gets as much exposure as possible. Apr 19, 04 | 12:22 pm
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Heckman mixes of Nitzer Ebb I think they were (very good they were too)
Rivetmike Apr 19, 04 | 12:39 pm
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Isn't Nitzer Ebb supposed to be coming out with some new goodies?
Apr 19, 04 | 1:35 pm
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I wondered how long it would be before someone mentioned Electroclash. Many people that are into EBM/Futurepop/whatever would really like a lot of the music produced in that genre but don't hear about it because its not branded goth/industrial or some subset thereof. Ladytron seems to be on the radar, but not less verse-chorus-verse-chorus types. Finally got round to getting Benny Benassi's 'Hypnotica' last week and it's great. Squidgy synths, Stephen Hawking-style vocals (both male and female), really good stuff.
Goth's gone mainstream. Every second car ad's got a Cure track on it, I saw a goth-style boy band on CD:UK last week, introduced by Cat Deeley in a mainstream version of an Alchemy t-shirt. Maybe EBM/Futurepop/whatever will follow through electroclash. A friend was playing Kiss 100 on the radio in her car last Saturday evening and I was suprised by how good some of the music was. To the DJ it was just a mash up of 80s pop like the Eurythmics, electro, house and hard dance, but I swear you could play it next to VNV or 242 in a club and no-one would bat any eyelid (except the I-only-like-what-I-know crowd). On another note, was reading some dance music mag late last year and they were going on about Futurepop. Was kinda weird until I realized that they were just using it as another term for Electroclash. Apr 21, 04 | 7:59 am
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Electroclash... it's just 80's new wave starting all over again. Perhaps, we're all caught in a forever circle of evolving music?
And I'd agree with Tom about spending more time promoting the bands we like than dissing on the ones we don't (or made it big). About money... perhaps a few bands make money from this scene. Good for them. I only dream about breaking even with our release. Even if sell them all, we won't though since we've spent $ on ads, promotion, etc. But, we knew that going in. We're doing for the love! If success is a bi-product of that, great. Apr 21, 04 | 11:59 am
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I know someone whom likes Electroclash although he is forever banging on about musical purism and he's no way the kinda person you'd expect to see in an electroclash club AND he attends one somewhere...talk about fish outta water...although I suppose he must dress to suit it which makes me wonder and my imagination run riot...what does a guy wear to an electroclash night?
A suit, maybe? I like Peaches, but am not sure that is Electroclash....I've never heard Fischerspooner or Ladytron,sad to say but has anyone any other tips on what it sounds like-any similarities etc? geististurm-I loved the burgerperfect pic and comments...was laughing so much my eyes were streaming! Am gonna go listen to Futureperfect later and just imagine it going with the music! Maybe EBM/F-pop will follow through Electroclash....the band on CD:UK were likely to have been The Rasmus,whose song is very catchy and the way they dress is the only thing they would have in common with goth music.That band I first heard about in a copy of Orkus I bought in Austria at Christmas. I'm supposing that they were more popular in Europe first as they were also on Viva TV there too around the same time. So many cure tracks on tv ads that I'm sick of hearing them....*reaches for the mute button...* I heard that that ad that used 'Don't you want me' by the Human League,the band themselves absolutely hated the advert. Apr 21, 04 | 6:21 pm
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What I hate now is hearing The Ramones on the commercial, which I'm sure Joey is turning in his grave over. I'm sure the two remaining members were hearing cash registers when Joey and Deedee kicked the bucket.
I seriously want to hear VNV on a commercial, singing specifically for that commercial. "Oh My Burger do you know? I am so proud that you are chargrilled!" for Burger King to the tune of "Beloved". Apr 21, 04 | 6:50 pm
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you know musicians that make this kind of music industrial/idm whatever you want to call it nowdays
say doing this kind of music is hard if it were easy everyone would be doing it and then they came out with furture poop i still can't believe that VNV's praise the fallen was the last release by Wax Trax records what a way to end a great label by ushering in the thing that would dominate clubs for the next 8 years fucking hell i want to see this trend fade out and maybe some of the good artsits with intergrity and actually make different sounds get some exposure Apr 21, 04 | 7:01 pm
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http://66.92.160.102/ronan/afraidofswords/index.html
also Sim Rornan's music video makes me happy to see ronan paraded as a fool Apr 21, 04 | 7:02 pm
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You mean that isn't the real Ronan and Mark? Egads! For a moment there, I thought they started working at McDonald's.
Apr 21, 04 | 7:08 pm
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That is so funny......I love the video....!!!!
I'm still laughing! Apr 22, 04 | 9:54 am
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The Rasmus is basically a huge HIM ripoff. Their promotional campaign even says something along the lines of "If you like HIM *shows footage of Ville Valo and company doing their thing* then you'll also like The Rasmus! *shows footage of The Rasmus doing their thing*"
I have a promotional CD from them somewhere, though I'm not exactly falling all over myself to go listen to it. Apr 22, 04 | 11:27 am
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Rasmus are just Universals answer to BMGs HIM.
Rivetmike Apr 22, 04 | 11:50 am
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I just want to say,being a little late on this post that futurepop sucks[oh wait I sorry I meant futureslop]That shit is to gay and pretty for me.
The way I fell if you go threw the whole history of our music its has its roots in agrassion and hate,I all so hate How some futurepop fans are just as stuck up as futurepop acts them self,But there the ones that dress in black and call them selfs Rivetheads,Ha there the fathist thing from a Rivethread. Well enoghf Futurepop bashing for the our. I would all so like to say thogh to each there own and our seace in so small to be putting down with other acts but got to draw the line with futurepop... Apr 22, 04 | 1:31 pm
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Very eloquently put.
Apr 22, 04 | 2:29 pm
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I'm in what might be considered a "futurepop" act.
I have been creating music for 15 years, have been in over 10 bands, and have never acted stuck up towards anyone. Why do that? It doesn't make any sense to act that way. Tom isn't that way, either, and anyone who knows him or has ever met him knows that. Same goes for Mark Harris, Eskil Simonssen, and the guys from Melotron. Zarathustra wins for the best.post.ever. *L-O-fucking-L* Other than that, this argument is retarded. Listen to what you like, and don't be an asshole, and everything will be just.fine. Apr 22, 04 | 2:57 pm
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no Fritter and Tom, you are both wrong! i am that much cooler that i can make fun of others on the message board instead of doing something productive!
Apr 22, 04 | 3:00 pm
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HIM is for anyone who said "man, you know what? The Mission UK just isn't gay enough. We need the Mission UK with a Queer Eye touch."
Fabulous, dawling! Melotron is Future Pop? When did this happen? I've met every single member of the group in person (even got a copy of "Klang Kombinat" signed that they gave me), and every word about themselves was "Synthpop". As for Zarathustra (who obviously hasn't read the part about the asp and the dragon from "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"), I'm honored to have someone make their only post a rip on me. Esp. an hour long rant about a project that's never existed. Apr 22, 04 | 3:09 pm
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The air must be awfully thin up there on your high horse. Perhaps you've heard the old saying: Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics; even if you win, you're still retarded.
*shrug* As for Melotron; yeah, the members themSELVES said they were synthpop. But you are what people SAY you are. Magazines call them futurepop; therefore, fans will associate them with such. It doesn't matter what you think you are; nobody cares what bands say they are. Britney Spears could say she was industrial all she wants. "Toxic" does have several elements of noise and IDM in it. But she's a pop star, because Rolling Stone, SPIN, and every other publication says so. If you want to remain negative, that's your right. But at the end of the day, what good does it do? You've insulted a bunch of strangers online. Is your dick bigger now? Do you have more money? Are you suddenly more successful than everyone else because you claim our music "sucks". Mmmmm...can you smell it? That's the smell of "constructive" criticism. *rolls eyes* As for the rest of it; I personally am not trying to "cash in" on anything. We make the kind of music that we like to make. I listen to music that is totally different than what I create. Dance music is fun to make, it's a challenge to work in Logic, and if people like it, then great. But I've NEVER harbored any illusions that I'm gonna be a big "rock star" some day. If you live your life like that, you are bound to be severely disappointed. I concede your point about HIM. I don't care for gothy-glam-metal. I've been down that road, and all I got was skeletal pain, and a horrible wardrobe. Apr 22, 04 | 3:27 pm
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Ahsjdhadjfhdhgjdfh hahahahaha Fritter!
"Same goes for Mark Harris" Did they finally get hitched? Apr 22, 04 | 3:40 pm
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P.S. I'm %95 sure Zarathustra = Ronan, it's chock full of Ronanisms.
Apr 22, 04 | 3:46 pm
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?!? Nah...you could be right. You are, after all, the Top Ronanologist in your field.
*LOLLERSKATES!!!1!!!!!!11111!!1* Eck. I feel dirty for even participating in this. If you want to be this scene's equivalent of a hippie, go ahead. If you want to listen to music that is 20 years old, go ahead. I would prefer to learn from the past, and continue on evolving, thanks. Apr 22, 04 | 4:00 pm
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I still think that geistinsturm post was supposed to be taken as a parody.
But I do agree with fritter about the retarded thingie: as I said many posts above, why in the industrial - ebm - goth scene ALL OVER THE WORLD people always have to state what's "true" and what's not? Why the past always harbored better things and the present always suck? Apr 22, 04 | 4:15 pm
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To each there own with music,I surly to go to sleep thinking about futurepop and no im not trying to cash in on future pop bashing.
To me every type of music give off its own energy and to me my perseption fpop gives off its own energy like happyla la la la,every things all good in the world I love you give me a hug! And on the other end of the spectrum do you listin to sucide commando, tacktical sekt etc and want to give some one a hug!ha All im saying is what ever happened to good old floor stompin music? flitter242,tshear23 never meant no disrepect. To each there own with music. Apr 22, 04 | 7:20 pm
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Finally, someone got that it's a joke.
As for Fritter's comments: The irony in Fritter and Zarathustra is that they moan that it's so much better not to insult, while Zarathustra tosses some vengeful personal affront on me (which last I checked Nietzsche preached against) and Fritter plays the cheerleader. I suppose if I'm not fighting against something you like, the ball field changes completely. I think the joke completely flew over your heads and over the horizon. Am I supposed to take it as an insult that you've got your panties in a knot over an obvious parody? Personally, if you take offense to my first post, i've probably hit too close to home hehe. *moment of zen!* But, eh, in the end think as you will. But when people start getting personal, I'm going to just flat out ignore you. I have my opinion though, and if you don't like it, you have the option of ignoring it. Simple as that. I don't have a gun to your head, I'm not making you listen to it. And as far as arguing, I argue nothing, because arguing entails changing someone's opinion. You've proven nothing to me except that one little opinion of mine gets you so up in arms, then a retort of "come on guys let's not fight anymore unless it's me!" And yeah, I do think Zarathustra=Ronan (as Epsilon stated). Even more of an honor if so that someone who is so 'huge' takes time out of a busy schedule to take on a person wearing a VNV shirt right now at his dayjob. Logic, it's astounding! I'm curious about the Ronan-isms by the way. What are some? Apr 22, 04 | 7:55 pm
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Its all fun and games with a edge I guess you could say.
Apr 22, 04 | 8:57 pm
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, just like Cincinnati.
Apr 22, 04 | 9:21 pm
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Dear geistimsturm...
Just admit it. I make you feel funny in the pants. ;) Apr 22, 04 | 11:25 pm
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HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Whoops, that was me under Tom's user name. Must. Log. Out. Joke. Backfired. Apr 22, 04 | 11:27 pm
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I did feel funny in my pants for a moment until I realized that maybe that having unprotected sex with a Haitian hemophiliac heroin addicted prostitute may be behind it.
Apr 22, 04 | 11:32 pm
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BTW; I'm not that much of a cheerleader. This is just about the 20th thread on a music board I've seen in the past 2 weeks about the same_thing. I personally am just tired of it. I learned very early on that the fingers you stomp on now will be wrapped around your throat later.
I also don't care *who* is made fun of. I have musician friends in ALL genres, have made music from pretty much all genres (except country western and nu-metal), and I find that we're all pretty much in the same boat; we just have different directions to go. *shrug* I also tire of the insinuation that because someone is making dance music, they are trying to "cash in" on something. I've liked this kind of music since I was 11 years old, and that was a loooooong time ago. I don't see that changing any time soon. Sorry about your pants. You can probably get some cream for that. Without a prescription, even! Apr 22, 04 | 11:51 pm
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My my sharp as a medicine ball tonight aren't we?
It's called a joke, for the billionth time. But I do see your point, and I do have friends as well in all different fields. Fuck, I've been dating/befriending a Britpop-Disco lover for some time, so you can't pull that card out on me. Believe me, if you can pound Oasis into my acceptance list, I'm open to anything. ;-) Apr 23, 04 | 12:02 am
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Well, I suppose it's gotta be better than some of the people I've been out with:(
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Same here. The girl I dated who got me into industrial was,is and always will be a nutcase. But eh here I am almost a decade later still loving the same music practically.
BTW, almost due for another Cesium 137 recommendation! ;-) If you see Imperative Reaction too with UV Wavelength in Columbus,OH, you'll get to hear UV WAvelength do their Mentallo cover "Tachyon" from the upcoming tribute CD. :-) Apr 23, 04 | 3:15 pm
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Dont get me rong if I had to chose between hip hop and futurepop I would go with futurepop!
Apr 23, 04 | 3:17 pm
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Good for you, violententity. The Scene needs more of your kind. Rivetstompmusik Uber Alles, am I rite?
Apr 23, 04 | 3:21 pm
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Yes you are very right,no preety shit for me not in my music of any other I stomp to!
Apr 23, 04 | 3:26 pm
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For real, man. Anyone who makes wussy happy sunshine lollipop rainbow music should be kicked in the face and then punched in the face too! STOMP STOMP STOMP STOMP!!!!!1!
Apr 23, 04 | 3:30 pm
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You crack me up!
Apr 23, 04 | 3:35 pm
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How are them UV kids, anyway? I haven't talked to Cable since the tour last year...
If you're so down with Cesium, why aren't you working with them? Merely curious. Apr 23, 04 | 3:42 pm
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Not folowing you?
Apr 23, 04 | 3:46 pm
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Indeed.
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Ummmmmmmmmmmm perhaps because I work with enough bands as is, and Metropolis is taking care of their promotions? I do bump into them on messenger here and there,though, quite nice guys. Trust me, if Metropolis weren't already taking care of the promotions for Cesium, I'd be all over it like Gary Glitter on a crippled preschooler. ;-)
The UV crew seems to be doing well. Apr 23, 04 | 3:51 pm
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I was under the impression that you were a booker as well?
*shrug* Just curious. They're good friends, and I'd really like to see them do well with the new contract and whatnot. Isaac seems very stressed lately because of school, and while I do not have the money for promotion, I have been trying to help them out as much as possible with the, uh, "tour" they're doing. *LOL* (ie; it's not much of a tour, unfortunately, and the extent of my help could only be directed at Seattle and San Fransisco.) They work hard, they deserve it. Apr 23, 04 | 4:07 pm
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I do a little booking as well, though American bookings are quite difficult unless you have a huge pocketbook to back them up.
I definitely agree with you on Cesium, they are a sharp,breakneck turn from the "OK let's hit play on our Access Virus and go out to coffee" ethics of modern EBM. These guys make anyone from a classical background proud as hell, and their CD reeks of each note being taken care of as if it were their own child. I swear, anyone who bitches about electronic music not being played for real not owning this CD, they are full of shit. Eh, even with a little amount of money,you can do your part to promote them. Fuck, I use little money to do and beat out alot of labels who spend thousands on promotions just through good music,not to toot my own horn. So go for it, and show your love for them. They are I can say without doubt one of the best things to hit this scene since Final Selection or Haujobb. And I hope them the absolute best. They above all deserve it. Apr 24, 04 | 6:18 am
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geistimstrum were do you promote from?
Apr 24, 04 | 2:11 pm
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Shaun swallows...............yer gay!!!
Apr 24, 04 | 2:41 pm
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He does what?????????
Not on here he doesn't I hope! Apr 24, 04 | 3:26 pm
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John's mad his dog can't give reacharounds (don't worry folks, we're friends, this is just our sick and oddball humor), and scratched his junk in the process.
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As to Violent's question, I promote from Chicago.
Apr 24, 04 | 5:37 pm
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